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	<title>Comments on: Gigantic family day on TLC.</title>
	<link>http://www.ibiblio.org/bascha/blog/2006/03/21/gigantic-family-day-on-tlc/</link>
	<description>&nbsp;</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 26 Jul 2008 03:25:58 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>by: e-doc</title>
		<link>http://www.ibiblio.org/bascha/blog/2006/03/21/gigantic-family-day-on-tlc/#comment-93615</link>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 May 2008 04:37:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.ibiblio.org/bascha/blog/2006/03/21/gigantic-family-day-on-tlc/#comment-93615</guid>
					<description>Noticed the Duggers have had another child. I personally think the family is too big, but that OMO. The only statement that really got my gall was that the parents would keep having children as long as the Lord blessed them. I personally find this to be a copout. God has allowed Dr to heal, computers to be developed and Trojan to make condoms. I think the parents have issues and may need counseling.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Noticed the Duggers have had another child. I personally think the family is too big, but that OMO. The only statement that really got my gall was that the parents would keep having children as long as the Lord blessed them. I personally find this to be a copout. God has allowed Dr to heal, computers to be developed and Trojan to make condoms. I think the parents have issues and may need counseling.
</p>
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		<title>by: Shavonda Bennett</title>
		<link>http://www.ibiblio.org/bascha/blog/2006/03/21/gigantic-family-day-on-tlc/#comment-83567</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2008 23:29:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.ibiblio.org/bascha/blog/2006/03/21/gigantic-family-day-on-tlc/#comment-83567</guid>
					<description>Hello Duggers I have watched every show you have done. You have beautiful family. 

&lt;div class=&quot;authorReply&quot;&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;Siteowner says:&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Just so you know, this isn't the Duggars blog.  And I don't think they've read this, much less the comments.  Though if they had I'd be terribly curious what their take is.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;

Brad and I have a family of 5. 2 parents and 3 boys. We are a Christian family and I think god for you teaching all of your kids the values of life. I have recored every show and I watch them often for inspiration about raiseing children. Michelle you are a very nice and a good mother. I hope that I can use of your systems with my boys. Sometimes me and my husband get over baren but I just take a deep breath and your family comes to mind. Jimbob and you are just  wonderful people and you have 17 wonderful little ones that has some of Jimbob and you Michelle. Our oldest is 10 he is Jessie our 2nd one is 5 he is Jacob our 3rd one is 4 and he is Jeremiah and has red hair thanks to my mother. But as I finish this comment Thank God for you and your family I think that all those souls that the two of you have they have been blessed with from God.God blessed you with 17.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello Duggers I have watched every show you have done. You have beautiful family. </p>
<div class="authorReply">
<p><em>Siteowner says:</em></p>
<p>Just so you know, this isn&#8217;t the Duggars blog.  And I don&#8217;t think they&#8217;ve read this, much less the comments.  Though if they had I&#8217;d be terribly curious what their take is.</p>
</div>
<p>Brad and I have a family of 5. 2 parents and 3 boys. We are a Christian family and I think god for you teaching all of your kids the values of life. I have recored every show and I watch them often for inspiration about raiseing children. Michelle you are a very nice and a good mother. I hope that I can use of your systems with my boys. Sometimes me and my husband get over baren but I just take a deep breath and your family comes to mind. Jimbob and you are just  wonderful people and you have 17 wonderful little ones that has some of Jimbob and you Michelle. Our oldest is 10 he is Jessie our 2nd one is 5 he is Jacob our 3rd one is 4 and he is Jeremiah and has red hair thanks to my mother. But as I finish this comment Thank God for you and your family I think that all those souls that the two of you have they have been blessed with from God.God blessed you with 17.
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		<title>by: Starlightdreamer</title>
		<link>http://www.ibiblio.org/bascha/blog/2006/03/21/gigantic-family-day-on-tlc/#comment-80584</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Feb 2008 19:11:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.ibiblio.org/bascha/blog/2006/03/21/gigantic-family-day-on-tlc/#comment-80584</guid>
					<description>Food for thought:

concernedmom (concernedmom)
New member
Username: concernedmom

Post Number: 1
Registered: 4-2005
Posted From: 70.178.0.67
	
Posted on Monday, April 04, 2005 - 2:41 pm:   	Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

WOW! andyman! You are right on with all you say. I have attended a couple of basic seminars when I was a teen and young adult(somewhat awhile back). Like you stated previously, I took what seemed to be the good stuff and left the goofy. Then, about 6 years ago, I met my now best friend. Her husband was very interested in IBLP and ATI. They learned about it through a home church here in our area. The families mostly belong to ATI, some since the very beginnings of ATI. A few of the families actually see ATI as to liberal for them, are you getting the picture. I was actually excited the first year that this family went to the ATI conference and came back with their first set of Wisdom Booklets. They shared them with us as we are both long time homeschool families. But as I started reading through and preparing to teach my children, I found some things that disturbed me and gave them back. Around the same time, my husband and I attended this home church. It seemed so perfect with all of the bright eyed, well behaved children and the friendliest people I have ever met. My husband is the one who had the red flags blarring, so he told me to take a couple of weeks and really look at Gothard's teachings, which are taught in the church through video and other means. What great wisdom on his part, I found more than enough to warrant my own red flags, but we still really admired two of the families inparticular. We had seem them occasionally over the next few years at some social events and even helped with political campaigns. Here is where things get interesting. These ATI families hold high state offices and have run for high federal offices, also. These are not sit in the corner type people. They are seperatists though. A few years ago, unknown to my best friend, now out of ATI but still paricipating in the home church, the men of the church were meeting after church to discuss my friends teenage daughters apparel. They felt like their blouses were to tight and they should bind their chest up more, go figure. At the same time the son of one of these political men was touching one of my friends teenage daughters in a sexual way as she slept. This was found out and apologies were made although the boy was tempted by the girls tight blouses(lol). The boy was sent to one of the training centers to be punished??? My friends did not return to the home church for quite sometime after this. At this same time, the boy mentioned earlier was betrothed to a girl in the the group, both were 14 at the time. The betrothal was broken by the boys actions. Then about a year later, my friend decided to go back to the home church and see everyone again. She was appalled at what went on at that particular meeting. An eight year old girl was made by her parents to stand in front of the group and confess the sin of masturbation and ask for punishment(to cleanse her) and forgiveness. My first thought was that this girl had to have been abused if she was truly masturbating, but with the power of these families, what can you do. Just this last year the family of the young man mentioned before was highlighted on the Discovery Channel, at the time they had 14 children and were about to have another and the mom was receiving a mother of the year award from our governor. Since that time the same boy was betrothed again to the same girl. He was working very hard on a campaingn for U.S. Senate for the girls father. The father lost the campaign. He immediately began looking for &quot;sin in the camp&quot;, as that could be the only explanation for the loss. He found that the young man betrothed to his daughter, had committed sexual sins(?) while on the campaign trail. The young man, now 16, was made to stand in fornt of the church and confess his sin. He was then told that the campaign was lost due to his sin. The weight of the world on this poor boys shoulders. I do not know what punishment the church gave but I do know that it was harsh enough for his mother to seek advise outside of the &quot;group&quot;, but she did eventually give in to her husband and the group. The young man and young girls betrothal is now broken. I am I nuts to see this as abuse? And what do you think can be done? I think if DHS were called they would go and see a happy family who call the governor friend not just aquaintance. I know this post is long, but I tried to include the really important stuff as there is so much more that can be told.

Direct link (you have to scroll down to April): 

http://www.factnet.org/factnetcgi/discus/show.cgi?tpc=3&amp;#38;post=95753</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Food for thought:</p>
<p>concernedmom (concernedmom)<br />
New member<br />
Username: concernedmom</p>
<p>Post Number: 1<br />
Registered: 4-2005<br />
Posted From: 70.178.0.67</p>
<p>Posted on Monday, April 04, 2005 - 2:41 pm:   	Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)</p>
<p>WOW! andyman! You are right on with all you say. I have attended a couple of basic seminars when I was a teen and young adult(somewhat awhile back). Like you stated previously, I took what seemed to be the good stuff and left the goofy. Then, about 6 years ago, I met my now best friend. Her husband was very interested in IBLP and ATI. They learned about it through a home church here in our area. The families mostly belong to ATI, some since the very beginnings of ATI. A few of the families actually see ATI as to liberal for them, are you getting the picture. I was actually excited the first year that this family went to the ATI conference and came back with their first set of Wisdom Booklets. They shared them with us as we are both long time homeschool families. But as I started reading through and preparing to teach my children, I found some things that disturbed me and gave them back. Around the same time, my husband and I attended this home church. It seemed so perfect with all of the bright eyed, well behaved children and the friendliest people I have ever met. My husband is the one who had the red flags blarring, so he told me to take a couple of weeks and really look at Gothard&#8217;s teachings, which are taught in the church through video and other means. What great wisdom on his part, I found more than enough to warrant my own red flags, but we still really admired two of the families inparticular. We had seem them occasionally over the next few years at some social events and even helped with political campaigns. Here is where things get interesting. These ATI families hold high state offices and have run for high federal offices, also. These are not sit in the corner type people. They are seperatists though. A few years ago, unknown to my best friend, now out of ATI but still paricipating in the home church, the men of the church were meeting after church to discuss my friends teenage daughters apparel. They felt like their blouses were to tight and they should bind their chest up more, go figure. At the same time the son of one of these political men was touching one of my friends teenage daughters in a sexual way as she slept. This was found out and apologies were made although the boy was tempted by the girls tight blouses(lol). The boy was sent to one of the training centers to be punished??? My friends did not return to the home church for quite sometime after this. At this same time, the boy mentioned earlier was betrothed to a girl in the the group, both were 14 at the time. The betrothal was broken by the boys actions. Then about a year later, my friend decided to go back to the home church and see everyone again. She was appalled at what went on at that particular meeting. An eight year old girl was made by her parents to stand in front of the group and confess the sin of masturbation and ask for punishment(to cleanse her) and forgiveness. My first thought was that this girl had to have been abused if she was truly masturbating, but with the power of these families, what can you do. Just this last year the family of the young man mentioned before was highlighted on the Discovery Channel, at the time they had 14 children and were about to have another and the mom was receiving a mother of the year award from our governor. Since that time the same boy was betrothed again to the same girl. He was working very hard on a campaingn for U.S. Senate for the girls father. The father lost the campaign. He immediately began looking for &#8220;sin in the camp&#8221;, as that could be the only explanation for the loss. He found that the young man betrothed to his daughter, had committed sexual sins(?) while on the campaign trail. The young man, now 16, was made to stand in fornt of the church and confess his sin. He was then told that the campaign was lost due to his sin. The weight of the world on this poor boys shoulders. I do not know what punishment the church gave but I do know that it was harsh enough for his mother to seek advise outside of the &#8220;group&#8221;, but she did eventually give in to her husband and the group. The young man and young girls betrothal is now broken. I am I nuts to see this as abuse? And what do you think can be done? I think if DHS were called they would go and see a happy family who call the governor friend not just aquaintance. I know this post is long, but I tried to include the really important stuff as there is so much more that can be told.</p>
<p>Direct link (you have to scroll down to April): </p>
<p><a href='http://www.factnet.org/factnetcgi/discus/show.cgi?tpc=3&amp;post=95753' rel='nofollow'>http://www.factnet.org/factnetcgi/discus/show.cgi?tpc=3&amp;post=95753</a>
</p>
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		<title>by: Dee</title>
		<link>http://www.ibiblio.org/bascha/blog/2006/03/21/gigantic-family-day-on-tlc/#comment-74832</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2008 17:58:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.ibiblio.org/bascha/blog/2006/03/21/gigantic-family-day-on-tlc/#comment-74832</guid>
					<description>Guess Alice couldn't provide the facts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Guess Alice couldn&#8217;t provide the facts.
</p>
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		<title>by: Linda</title>
		<link>http://www.ibiblio.org/bascha/blog/2006/03/21/gigantic-family-day-on-tlc/#comment-74576</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jan 2008 23:14:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.ibiblio.org/bascha/blog/2006/03/21/gigantic-family-day-on-tlc/#comment-74576</guid>
					<description>If the Duggars don't have the internet then explain to me how they maintain their webpage? www.duggarfamily.com</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If the Duggars don&#8217;t have the internet then explain to me how they maintain their webpage? <a href='http://www.duggarfamily.com' rel='nofollow'>www.duggarfamily.com</a>
</p>
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		<title>by: pk6683</title>
		<link>http://www.ibiblio.org/bascha/blog/2006/03/21/gigantic-family-day-on-tlc/#comment-62889</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Oct 2007 19:33:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.ibiblio.org/bascha/blog/2006/03/21/gigantic-family-day-on-tlc/#comment-62889</guid>
					<description>This is not something that I would normally do, but I feel compelled to take up for Josh just a little.  Don't get me wrong, if he did this (and that's a BIG IF, because I can't find any info to back up these allegations, either), then he needs to be punished.  I do not condone pornography and I CERTAINLY don't condone child molestation.  With that said, I can relate to the kind of life that this boy has led, and I feel sorry for him for that.  I grew up in a strctly religious, large family.  I am the oldest.  I had expectations put on me that no kid should ever be expected to live up to.  My father was a minister and very strict.  I got interested in the Duggars to begin with because there were so many similarities between our families.  Preacher's kids are judged more quickly and often times more harshly than others.  They live in &quot;glass houses&quot; and it's not always fair to them.  I know Jim Bob is not a minister, but he has subjected all of his children to this kind of judgement now by letting the media take over their lives.  Churches and communities around them are usually full of cackling old hens (like Alice) that can't wait for the kids to mess up so they can be the first to rip them into shreds.  IF Josh has or has had a problem, it should be his to deal with, not ours.  IF he violated any of his siblings, then yes, he should pay.  There is no excuse for that!  As far as the porn, let's be honest.  If we all had our dirty laundry spread all over the internet, it wouldn't all fit!!  The ONLY difference is that this kid has parents that have allowed him to be put into a position of public humiliation.  I would be lying if I said that I never checked out porn as an adolescent.  I did!  As did most of my friends at the time.  I am a Christian now and have asked forgiveness from God, but I don't have to ask for it from the general public and neither should Josh.  I guess what I'm saying is that if you want to criticize the parents, go ahead, they have asked for it.  The kids are just along for the ride. They are going to mess up just like WE ALL did growing up.  Don't come on the internet and put their heads on a chopping block.  I PROMISE YOU they get that enough.  Josh, if you happen to read any of this, hang in there, pal!!  Life gets better when you move away from home!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is not something that I would normally do, but I feel compelled to take up for Josh just a little.  Don&#8217;t get me wrong, if he did this (and that&#8217;s a BIG IF, because I can&#8217;t find any info to back up these allegations, either), then he needs to be punished.  I do not condone pornography and I CERTAINLY don&#8217;t condone child molestation.  With that said, I can relate to the kind of life that this boy has led, and I feel sorry for him for that.  I grew up in a strctly religious, large family.  I am the oldest.  I had expectations put on me that no kid should ever be expected to live up to.  My father was a minister and very strict.  I got interested in the Duggars to begin with because there were so many similarities between our families.  Preacher&#8217;s kids are judged more quickly and often times more harshly than others.  They live in &#8220;glass houses&#8221; and it&#8217;s not always fair to them.  I know Jim Bob is not a minister, but he has subjected all of his children to this kind of judgement now by letting the media take over their lives.  Churches and communities around them are usually full of cackling old hens (like Alice) that can&#8217;t wait for the kids to mess up so they can be the first to rip them into shreds.  IF Josh has or has had a problem, it should be his to deal with, not ours.  IF he violated any of his siblings, then yes, he should pay.  There is no excuse for that!  As far as the porn, let&#8217;s be honest.  If we all had our dirty laundry spread all over the internet, it wouldn&#8217;t all fit!!  The ONLY difference is that this kid has parents that have allowed him to be put into a position of public humiliation.  I would be lying if I said that I never checked out porn as an adolescent.  I did!  As did most of my friends at the time.  I am a Christian now and have asked forgiveness from God, but I don&#8217;t have to ask for it from the general public and neither should Josh.  I guess what I&#8217;m saying is that if you want to criticize the parents, go ahead, they have asked for it.  The kids are just along for the ride. They are going to mess up just like WE ALL did growing up.  Don&#8217;t come on the internet and put their heads on a chopping block.  I PROMISE YOU they get that enough.  Josh, if you happen to read any of this, hang in there, pal!!  Life gets better when you move away from home!!
</p>
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		<title>by: Lenore</title>
		<link>http://www.ibiblio.org/bascha/blog/2006/03/21/gigantic-family-day-on-tlc/#comment-59438</link>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Sep 2007 07:19:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.ibiblio.org/bascha/blog/2006/03/21/gigantic-family-day-on-tlc/#comment-59438</guid>
					<description>but didn’t somebody say they don’t have internet?), 

They do have the Internet, and even a television (believe it or not), that isn't used very much.

Also, I think Alice's reference to &quot;church&quot; was their church at home, not an actual building.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>but didn’t somebody say they don’t have internet?), </p>
<p>They do have the Internet, and even a television (believe it or not), that isn&#8217;t used very much.</p>
<p>Also, I think Alice&#8217;s reference to &#8220;church&#8221; was their church at home, not an actual building.
</p>
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		<title>by: Patchy</title>
		<link>http://www.ibiblio.org/bascha/blog/2006/03/21/gigantic-family-day-on-tlc/#comment-58952</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Sep 2007 01:30:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.ibiblio.org/bascha/blog/2006/03/21/gigantic-family-day-on-tlc/#comment-58952</guid>
					<description>How the HELL can they afford to build that huge house in 3 years, get all the extra help they need, buy all those furniture, raise 16 children, plus all the other expenses such as water and electricity, without going in debt?!??! It sure doesn't seem like they're dog gone rich.

AND WHY does she want to have soo many kids??!? Someone needs a vasectomy. I know people like big families, but this is too much.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How the HELL can they afford to build that huge house in 3 years, get all the extra help they need, buy all those furniture, raise 16 children, plus all the other expenses such as water and electricity, without going in debt?!??! It sure doesn&#8217;t seem like they&#8217;re dog gone rich.</p>
<p>AND WHY does she want to have soo many kids??!? Someone needs a vasectomy. I know people like big families, but this is too much.
</p>
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		<title>by: Steve</title>
		<link>http://www.ibiblio.org/bascha/blog/2006/03/21/gigantic-family-day-on-tlc/#comment-58466</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Sep 2007 15:24:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.ibiblio.org/bascha/blog/2006/03/21/gigantic-family-day-on-tlc/#comment-58466</guid>
					<description>The parents have quite a scam going.  What's especially offensive about this couple is that they appear to use their kids as marketing tools for the financial planning seminars and to solicit free everything from anyone who will give them things.  The kids seem warm and loving, yet the parents come across as distant, Stepfordish automatans.  And, as some earlier bloggers noted, it seems like such a self-centered pursuit in a world that is already overpopulated.  Wouldn't it have been better to have adopted?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The parents have quite a scam going.  What&#8217;s especially offensive about this couple is that they appear to use their kids as marketing tools for the financial planning seminars and to solicit free everything from anyone who will give them things.  The kids seem warm and loving, yet the parents come across as distant, Stepfordish automatans.  And, as some earlier bloggers noted, it seems like such a self-centered pursuit in a world that is already overpopulated.  Wouldn&#8217;t it have been better to have adopted?
</p>
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		<title>by: marie</title>
		<link>http://www.ibiblio.org/bascha/blog/2006/03/21/gigantic-family-day-on-tlc/#comment-56288</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Sep 2007 05:01:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.ibiblio.org/bascha/blog/2006/03/21/gigantic-family-day-on-tlc/#comment-56288</guid>
					<description>EZ-Dog, yes i came across real heavy and regret using that horrible word,sorry didn't mean to offend anyone. just relaying how i feel about that family. too too many children but it is their right to have as many children as they want no matter if i disagree with them. also, so long as i don't have to use my taz money to help support them. from what i understand, they don't. so i wish them well, no matter how i feel about it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>EZ-Dog, yes i came across real heavy and regret using that horrible word,sorry didn&#8217;t mean to offend anyone. just relaying how i feel about that family. too too many children but it is their right to have as many children as they want no matter if i disagree with them. also, so long as i don&#8217;t have to use my taz money to help support them. from what i understand, they don&#8217;t. so i wish them well, no matter how i feel about it.
</p>
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