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	<title>Comments on: When you think you&#8217;re out of Duggars, the world gives you more.</title>
	<link>http://www.ibiblio.org/bascha/blog/2006/12/16/when-you-think-youre-out-of-duggars-the-world-gives-you-more/</link>
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	<pubDate>Sun, 27 May 2012 04:42:13 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>by: bascha</title>
		<link>http://www.ibiblio.org/bascha/blog/2006/12/16/when-you-think-youre-out-of-duggars-the-world-gives-you-more/#comment-131642</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jan 2009 23:45:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.ibiblio.org/bascha/blog/2006/12/16/when-you-think-youre-out-of-duggars-the-world-gives-you-more/#comment-131642</guid>
					<description>Awwww, shucks.  *scuffs foot*  Thanks...

I've another Duggar post in the works, but they always seem to get away from me in length.  Perhaps I'll get around to posting it soon.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Awwww, shucks.  *scuffs foot*  Thanks&#8230;</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve another Duggar post in the works, but they always seem to get away from me in length.  Perhaps I&#8217;ll get around to posting it soon.
</p>
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		<title>by: Kim</title>
		<link>http://www.ibiblio.org/bascha/blog/2006/12/16/when-you-think-youre-out-of-duggars-the-world-gives-you-more/#comment-131639</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jan 2009 23:22:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.ibiblio.org/bascha/blog/2006/12/16/when-you-think-youre-out-of-duggars-the-world-gives-you-more/#comment-131639</guid>
					<description>I have been thinking about this mess ever since I saw that wedding show, and I must say, I think I love you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have been thinking about this mess ever since I saw that wedding show, and I must say, I think I love you.
</p>
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		<title>by: Eve</title>
		<link>http://www.ibiblio.org/bascha/blog/2006/12/16/when-you-think-youre-out-of-duggars-the-world-gives-you-more/#comment-93428</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 May 2008 20:08:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.ibiblio.org/bascha/blog/2006/12/16/when-you-think-youre-out-of-duggars-the-world-gives-you-more/#comment-93428</guid>
					<description>I can tell you are more of a pew warmer,,if you go to church at all than a real bible believing person. 

&lt;div class=&quot;authorReply&quot;&gt;
&lt;em&gt;site owner says:&lt;/em&gt;
&lt;p&gt;And I can tell you're a judgemental bigot who gives Christians a bad rap.

I do believe in the bible.  I believe it is a book, with all good intentions of being both a historical record and religious tract for a fairly moral religion... that has been translated and twisted and taken out of context for uses that were never meant, given meanings that are wholly inaccurate or at best unsustainable, and touted about as an infallible ruling when it is at best a well-meant guide.

If you spent more time /studying/ the bible instead of breathlessly memorizing it and the words of small, scared men... then you might realize that.  But I have little hope.

As for warming a pew?  I haven't in more than a decade, largely because of people exactly like you.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;

The bible teaches us many things and it appears to me that the Duggars are going by the book. 

&lt;div class=&quot;authorReply&quot;&gt;
&lt;p&gt;What part of the book says you need an enormous house kitted out with the finest in home appliances paid for by an outlet of a media conglomerate that you believe is part of the /inherent evil/ in the secular world?  Hypocrisy much?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;

As for the inner city Mom....is she married? Does she know who the Daddy of any of children are?  Did she have more kids just to get more welfare checks?  This inner city Mom is usually one who is usually not God fearing or clean living...A lot are on drugs and just let someone else take care of their kids or they just wander the streets...don't pretend you don't know what they do. 

&lt;div class=&quot;authorReply&quot;&gt;
&lt;p&gt;That might just be the most racist and classist thing I've ever heard anyone say in my entire life.

How about that inner city mom?  You hear &quot;inner city&quot; and mistake it for &quot;crackhead.&quot; Not to say that a crackhead is any less deserving of God's grace... because, clearly, if you /read/ the bible, you know that the /least/ of us--the sick the poor the sinners--are greatest to god. You wouldn't be /judging/ now would you?

And that entirely aside, why don't you chew over the profile of a real inner city mom:  Hispanic, early 40s, Catholic. A child of immigrants, a citizen (lest your xenophobia come out to play as well). No money for college, so she joined the workforce and got married, in the church. Her religion forbade birth control, as does the Duggars. She has been married for 20 years now, and has 11 children. She and her husband both work--they have to, and sometimes he has to work multiple jobs just to pay the bills. The live in a cramped 3-bedroom apartment. Their kids go to public school and public daycare or stay with friends and family--not because their mother doesn't /want/ to stay home, or is out &quot;walking the streets&quot; but because she is working--they can't afford anything else. She prays /daily/ for menopause, or--at the least--not to be pregnant /again/.  The medical bills from the children they already have are staggering, not to mention the amount of time she spends off work--without paid leave--for each birth or bout of childhood illness. The local clinic--or Planned Parenthood--gives some amount of pre and post-natal care, but anything beyond run-of-the-mill illness and this insurance-less family is screwed. And why don't they have insurance?  Well, first, a good portion of the jobs they are able to get don't carry insurance benefits. This includes many jobs through temp agencies or deemed &quot;part time&quot; to save companies money on inessential personel. And those that do get bennies aren't on the cushy plans enjoyed by office denizens and middle managers.  And even if they were, the monthly premiums for a family of 11?  Would reduce an already-meager paycheck to nearly nothing.

That is reality. Not television reality, not Montel Williams reality.

And what do you think when you see this mom in the grocery, counting out WIC foodstamps? I'm fairly certain you don't rush to congratulate /her/ on her display of god's great will.  Her kids are the ones you forbid your kids to play with. You're certainly not going to tithe to give her the baby grand piano her children &quot;need.&quot; Discovery Channel isn't knocking down her door with 6-figure checks.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;

At least this Mom is married, and trying to bring her kids up to contribute to society and not be a drain...

&lt;div class=&quot;authorReply&quot;&gt;
&lt;p&gt;As noted, marriage isn't only the property of quiver-full fundamentalists.

And I'm not so certain the Duggar kids are particularly keen on contributing anything to a society they've never seen or been encouraged to even contemplate.  The family is clearly separatist--they do not regularly interact with any portion of &quot;society&quot; other than a select few from their home church.  And speaking of the &quot;home church,&quot; it's been mentioned here before (though not entirely substantiated) that the family has their expansive, expensive home--which is connected to city services like any other property--written off as a religious building for tax sheltering purposes.  Thousands of dollars in taxes a year they're not &quot;contributing&quot; to society already. And does no one recognize the absolute hypocrisy of a formerly elected--and paid by the state--official loopholing his way out of paying his part back into the coffers?

And here, again, you assume that &quot;inner city&quot; is a euphamism for &quot;inevitably state dependant.&quot; So not true. So many of my contemporaries--bright, skilled, talented and successful people--come from backgrounds just like the one I described earlier. You are clearly out of touch with reality.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;

as for the Gay couple...read your bible..their lifestyle is an abomination to God...I didn't say that...He says that....they shouldn't be together in the first place in God's eyes,,much less trying to raise children...

&lt;div class=&quot;authorReply&quot;&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Let me ask?  Do you eat shellfish?  Does your godly husband trim his beard?  If so, the same verses that call homosexuals an abomination apply the same to those now-permissable things.  And quite a few more.  In fact, verses from the same book--Leviticus, in case you need to check it out--dictate how and when one should take slaves--from neighboring countries of course--and how women should be shut away during menses.  I'm thinking there's an awful lot of unwitting abomination going on out there, if we're going strictly &quot;by the book.&quot;

The bible was written by men.  Men attempting to lay down historical and spiritual record, a writing greatly affected by the rules and laws of society and citizenry at the time. And if you take the time to study not just the words on the page, but their context in their time, the picture becomes far more clear.  The book of Leviticus deals almost entirely with the rules regarding health and public safety of that era.  Communicable disease--what with the lack of antibiotics--was a serious problem.  Cholera was rampant, and shellfish was a common source of the disease, coming from waters polluted by human and animal waste.  Pork was forbidden for similar reasons, the pig being able to host many dangerous-to-consume organisms. The rules about sex were in place for the same reasons.  Lacking today's hygenic practices and short-course antibiotics and antifungals, sexual intercourse with a menustrating woman--or really any contact at all outside of a virginal marriage bed--also carried a high risk, not just of catching today's &quot;scary&quot; STDs, but of common, treatable infections that, then, could be quite deadly.  For instance, many woman have recurring yeast infections at menustration, and those can be passed to their partners--especially so when the climate and conditions and dress all encouraged that sort of illness.   Untreated, that kind of infection can lead to sterility, sepsis, and death. The same risk of general infection/illness is true of unprotected anal sex--thus the ban on male-male relations and on sodomy in general. There was no cure for even &quot;minor&quot; STDs, so once they were introduced into a population, they spread--and not solely through sexual contact.  Remember, they didn't have antibiotic soaps or practice even remotely safe hygiene. People shared everything from bedsheets to undergarments, and they didn't pop down to the store for disposable toilet paper or run a load of wash with bleach after an illness. Promoting fidelity was a public health mandate, in a time where safe sex options and basic medical intervention were simply not available. Controlling behavior was the best that could be done.

But now, like the advances in food handling, processing, and animal care that allow us to eat shellfish and bacon, there have also been sufficient advances in medicine and reproductive technology--and the knowledge of the importance of hygiene--that allow humans to behave as they are naturally inclined.

It's called context.  You should try it sometime.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;

If you are going to preach Sister,,you need to make sure you are versed in the Bible...

&lt;div class=&quot;authorReply&quot;&gt;
&lt;p&gt;*snort*

Versed in your version of what you think the bible says?  No thanks.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;

Carry on Duggars....God has truely blessed you.

&lt;div class=&quot;authorReply&quot;&gt;
&lt;p&gt;As has Campbells Soup and Huggies Diapers.  Amen, you corporate whores, Amen.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can tell you are more of a pew warmer,,if you go to church at all than a real bible believing person. </p>
<div class="authorReply">
<em>site owner says:</em></p>
<p>And I can tell you&#8217;re a judgemental bigot who gives Christians a bad rap.</p>
<p>I do believe in the bible.  I believe it is a book, with all good intentions of being both a historical record and religious tract for a fairly moral religion&#8230; that has been translated and twisted and taken out of context for uses that were never meant, given meanings that are wholly inaccurate or at best unsustainable, and touted about as an infallible ruling when it is at best a well-meant guide.</p>
<p>If you spent more time /studying/ the bible instead of breathlessly memorizing it and the words of small, scared men&#8230; then you might realize that.  But I have little hope.</p>
<p>As for warming a pew?  I haven&#8217;t in more than a decade, largely because of people exactly like you.</p>
</div>
<p>The bible teaches us many things and it appears to me that the Duggars are going by the book. </p>
<div class="authorReply">
<p>What part of the book says you need an enormous house kitted out with the finest in home appliances paid for by an outlet of a media conglomerate that you believe is part of the /inherent evil/ in the secular world?  Hypocrisy much?</p>
</div>
<p>As for the inner city Mom&#8230;.is she married? Does she know who the Daddy of any of children are?  Did she have more kids just to get more welfare checks?  This inner city Mom is usually one who is usually not God fearing or clean living&#8230;A lot are on drugs and just let someone else take care of their kids or they just wander the streets&#8230;don&#8217;t pretend you don&#8217;t know what they do. </p>
<div class="authorReply">
<p>That might just be the most racist and classist thing I&#8217;ve ever heard anyone say in my entire life.</p>
<p>How about that inner city mom?  You hear &#8220;inner city&#8221; and mistake it for &#8220;crackhead.&#8221; Not to say that a crackhead is any less deserving of God&#8217;s grace&#8230; because, clearly, if you /read/ the bible, you know that the /least/ of us&#8211;the sick the poor the sinners&#8211;are greatest to god. You wouldn&#8217;t be /judging/ now would you?</p>
<p>And that entirely aside, why don&#8217;t you chew over the profile of a real inner city mom:  Hispanic, early 40s, Catholic. A child of immigrants, a citizen (lest your xenophobia come out to play as well). No money for college, so she joined the workforce and got married, in the church. Her religion forbade birth control, as does the Duggars. She has been married for 20 years now, and has 11 children. She and her husband both work&#8211;they have to, and sometimes he has to work multiple jobs just to pay the bills. The live in a cramped 3-bedroom apartment. Their kids go to public school and public daycare or stay with friends and family&#8211;not because their mother doesn&#8217;t /want/ to stay home, or is out &#8220;walking the streets&#8221; but because she is working&#8211;they can&#8217;t afford anything else. She prays /daily/ for menopause, or&#8211;at the least&#8211;not to be pregnant /again/.  The medical bills from the children they already have are staggering, not to mention the amount of time she spends off work&#8211;without paid leave&#8211;for each birth or bout of childhood illness. The local clinic&#8211;or Planned Parenthood&#8211;gives some amount of pre and post-natal care, but anything beyond run-of-the-mill illness and this insurance-less family is screwed. And why don&#8217;t they have insurance?  Well, first, a good portion of the jobs they are able to get don&#8217;t carry insurance benefits. This includes many jobs through temp agencies or deemed &#8220;part time&#8221; to save companies money on inessential personel. And those that do get bennies aren&#8217;t on the cushy plans enjoyed by office denizens and middle managers.  And even if they were, the monthly premiums for a family of 11?  Would reduce an already-meager paycheck to nearly nothing.</p>
<p>That is reality. Not television reality, not Montel Williams reality.</p>
<p>And what do you think when you see this mom in the grocery, counting out WIC foodstamps? I&#8217;m fairly certain you don&#8217;t rush to congratulate /her/ on her display of god&#8217;s great will.  Her kids are the ones you forbid your kids to play with. You&#8217;re certainly not going to tithe to give her the baby grand piano her children &#8220;need.&#8221; Discovery Channel isn&#8217;t knocking down her door with 6-figure checks.</p>
</div>
<p>At least this Mom is married, and trying to bring her kids up to contribute to society and not be a drain&#8230;</p>
<div class="authorReply">
<p>As noted, marriage isn&#8217;t only the property of quiver-full fundamentalists.</p>
<p>And I&#8217;m not so certain the Duggar kids are particularly keen on contributing anything to a society they&#8217;ve never seen or been encouraged to even contemplate.  The family is clearly separatist&#8211;they do not regularly interact with any portion of &#8220;society&#8221; other than a select few from their home church.  And speaking of the &#8220;home church,&#8221; it&#8217;s been mentioned here before (though not entirely substantiated) that the family has their expansive, expensive home&#8211;which is connected to city services like any other property&#8211;written off as a religious building for tax sheltering purposes.  Thousands of dollars in taxes a year they&#8217;re not &#8220;contributing&#8221; to society already. And does no one recognize the absolute hypocrisy of a formerly elected&#8211;and paid by the state&#8211;official loopholing his way out of paying his part back into the coffers?</p>
<p>And here, again, you assume that &#8220;inner city&#8221; is a euphamism for &#8220;inevitably state dependant.&#8221; So not true. So many of my contemporaries&#8211;bright, skilled, talented and successful people&#8211;come from backgrounds just like the one I described earlier. You are clearly out of touch with reality.</p>
</div>
<p>as for the Gay couple&#8230;read your bible..their lifestyle is an abomination to God&#8230;I didn&#8217;t say that&#8230;He says that&#8230;.they shouldn&#8217;t be together in the first place in God&#8217;s eyes,,much less trying to raise children&#8230;</p>
<div class="authorReply">
<p>Let me ask?  Do you eat shellfish?  Does your godly husband trim his beard?  If so, the same verses that call homosexuals an abomination apply the same to those now-permissable things.  And quite a few more.  In fact, verses from the same book&#8211;Leviticus, in case you need to check it out&#8211;dictate how and when one should take slaves&#8211;from neighboring countries of course&#8211;and how women should be shut away during menses.  I&#8217;m thinking there&#8217;s an awful lot of unwitting abomination going on out there, if we&#8217;re going strictly &#8220;by the book.&#8221;</p>
<p>The bible was written by men.  Men attempting to lay down historical and spiritual record, a writing greatly affected by the rules and laws of society and citizenry at the time. And if you take the time to study not just the words on the page, but their context in their time, the picture becomes far more clear.  The book of Leviticus deals almost entirely with the rules regarding health and public safety of that era.  Communicable disease&#8211;what with the lack of antibiotics&#8211;was a serious problem.  Cholera was rampant, and shellfish was a common source of the disease, coming from waters polluted by human and animal waste.  Pork was forbidden for similar reasons, the pig being able to host many dangerous-to-consume organisms. The rules about sex were in place for the same reasons.  Lacking today&#8217;s hygenic practices and short-course antibiotics and antifungals, sexual intercourse with a menustrating woman&#8211;or really any contact at all outside of a virginal marriage bed&#8211;also carried a high risk, not just of catching today&#8217;s &#8220;scary&#8221; STDs, but of common, treatable infections that, then, could be quite deadly.  For instance, many woman have recurring yeast infections at menustration, and those can be passed to their partners&#8211;especially so when the climate and conditions and dress all encouraged that sort of illness.   Untreated, that kind of infection can lead to sterility, sepsis, and death. The same risk of general infection/illness is true of unprotected anal sex&#8211;thus the ban on male-male relations and on sodomy in general. There was no cure for even &#8220;minor&#8221; STDs, so once they were introduced into a population, they spread&#8211;and not solely through sexual contact.  Remember, they didn&#8217;t have antibiotic soaps or practice even remotely safe hygiene. People shared everything from bedsheets to undergarments, and they didn&#8217;t pop down to the store for disposable toilet paper or run a load of wash with bleach after an illness. Promoting fidelity was a public health mandate, in a time where safe sex options and basic medical intervention were simply not available. Controlling behavior was the best that could be done.</p>
<p>But now, like the advances in food handling, processing, and animal care that allow us to eat shellfish and bacon, there have also been sufficient advances in medicine and reproductive technology&#8211;and the knowledge of the importance of hygiene&#8211;that allow humans to behave as they are naturally inclined.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s called context.  You should try it sometime.</p>
</div>
<p>If you are going to preach Sister,,you need to make sure you are versed in the Bible&#8230;</p>
<div class="authorReply">
<p>*snort*</p>
<p>Versed in your version of what you think the bible says?  No thanks.</p>
</div>
<p>Carry on Duggars&#8230;.God has truely blessed you.</p>
<div class="authorReply">
<p>As has Campbells Soup and Huggies Diapers.  Amen, you corporate whores, Amen.</p>
</div>
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		<title>by: heather</title>
		<link>http://www.ibiblio.org/bascha/blog/2006/12/16/when-you-think-youre-out-of-duggars-the-world-gives-you-more/#comment-48001</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jul 2007 18:39:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.ibiblio.org/bascha/blog/2006/12/16/when-you-think-youre-out-of-duggars-the-world-gives-you-more/#comment-48001</guid>
					<description>I came across your blog and I just had to leave a comment. I would like to know where this BREED MARE with frizzed out hair plans on taking her older children to take their SAT tests for college ; or are they expected to grow up and be like mommy and daddy with NO education ??? I am a teacher, and I think what these people are doing is cruel and rotten...do these kids have any peers that they can hang out with in between their bible studies and child rearing of their younger siblings ? What they should do is tie the mother's tubes, and get the kids to see an orthodontist on a family plan, because most of them have a mouth problem as well...I am just trying to figure out which parent has the biggest mouth problem, take a look at them if you don't believe me. Also, I wonder if she would be BLOWING OUT KIDS every 15 minutes if she had just ONE child with a learning problem, or autism, or Down's Syndrome. I'd like to see her handle a kid with amblyopia, never mind ADHD ! Let's hope this last one is her last ! They are just DISGUSTING ! I just don't think it's fair for these bible thumpers to keep producing kids who will in turn, produce more....then run to the bible and find some bible passage to say that what they are doing is &quot;God's will&quot;. Let's hope that she goes into menopause soon, and her hormones stop racing. Enough is enough ! If they didn't like all of the publicity that they are getting, then they would refuse the t.v. documentaries and all of the freebies that comwe with the t.v. documentaries.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I came across your blog and I just had to leave a comment. I would like to know where this BREED MARE with frizzed out hair plans on taking her older children to take their SAT tests for college ; or are they expected to grow up and be like mommy and daddy with NO education ??? I am a teacher, and I think what these people are doing is cruel and rotten&#8230;do these kids have any peers that they can hang out with in between their bible studies and child rearing of their younger siblings ? What they should do is tie the mother&#8217;s tubes, and get the kids to see an orthodontist on a family plan, because most of them have a mouth problem as well&#8230;I am just trying to figure out which parent has the biggest mouth problem, take a look at them if you don&#8217;t believe me. Also, I wonder if she would be BLOWING OUT KIDS every 15 minutes if she had just ONE child with a learning problem, or autism, or Down&#8217;s Syndrome. I&#8217;d like to see her handle a kid with amblyopia, never mind ADHD ! Let&#8217;s hope this last one is her last ! They are just DISGUSTING ! I just don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s fair for these bible thumpers to keep producing kids who will in turn, produce more&#8230;.then run to the bible and find some bible passage to say that what they are doing is &#8220;God&#8217;s will&#8221;. Let&#8217;s hope that she goes into menopause soon, and her hormones stop racing. Enough is enough ! If they didn&#8217;t like all of the publicity that they are getting, then they would refuse the t.v. documentaries and all of the freebies that comwe with the t.v. documentaries.
</p>
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		<title>by: brian</title>
		<link>http://www.ibiblio.org/bascha/blog/2006/12/16/when-you-think-youre-out-of-duggars-the-world-gives-you-more/#comment-8375</link>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Dec 2006 15:58:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.ibiblio.org/bascha/blog/2006/12/16/when-you-think-youre-out-of-duggars-the-world-gives-you-more/#comment-8375</guid>
					<description>I always find the dichotomy of two realities a bit confusing.  There's the Real World that the allegedly completely evil (even to other humans) people populate to the absence of all fundamentalist Christians... and then there's the reality in which God decides when women get pregnant.  In other words, God's only around when the overwhelming majority of people present are fundamentalist Christian.  That's the only sense I can make of the logic, and I grew up in a fundamentalist environment.

That logic is the reason for the power hunger, the excuse for the bloodshed, and the general drive to beat the rest of the nation into their mold.  Never mind that many of us find that mold to be extremely shallow at best, and morally offensive at its worst.  So yes, yes they need to fight violently to have &lt;em&gt;their&lt;/em&gt; will impinged upon the rest of us.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I always find the dichotomy of two realities a bit confusing.  There&#8217;s the Real World that the allegedly completely evil (even to other humans) people populate to the absence of all fundamentalist Christians&#8230; and then there&#8217;s the reality in which God decides when women get pregnant.  In other words, God&#8217;s only around when the overwhelming majority of people present are fundamentalist Christian.  That&#8217;s the only sense I can make of the logic, and I grew up in a fundamentalist environment.</p>
<p>That logic is the reason for the power hunger, the excuse for the bloodshed, and the general drive to beat the rest of the nation into their mold.  Never mind that many of us find that mold to be extremely shallow at best, and morally offensive at its worst.  So yes, yes they need to fight violently to have <em>their</em> will impinged upon the rest of us.
</p>
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