Re: Mari Broman (was Aorist resources)

Jonathan Robie (jwrobie@mindspring.com)
Mon, 09 Dec 1996 18:51:45 -0500

At 04:11 PM 12/9/96 -0600, Carl W. Conrad wrote:
>One point needs to be said about these examples: it is not usually argued
>that the aorist has tense (time) reference outside the indicative, although
>the participle not infrequently seems to indicate action preceding that of
>the main verb. But infinitives, participles, subjunctives, imperatives:
>these in the aorist ought normally, I think, to be understood in terms of
>aspect rather than time.

Good point. Mari can confirm this (or not, depending on whether I'm right),
but I do not think that she treats the indicative differently from other
moods for tense and aspect (I've had the papers for 3 days now...). This is
one of the things which makes it simpler.

Also, she, like others, argues that the sense of the verb is also involved
in the determination of tense and aspect, but she formally states what she
means by this: she says that verbs may be marked as any combination of
telic, dynamic, and durative, and it is *this* sense of the verb that is
involved in the determination of tense and aspect.

OK, now I'll take Carl's point into consideration and limit my Gramcord
search to indicative aorists, since traditional accounts claim that the
aorist acts as a tense only in the indicative. There are two passages which
support Mari's theory:

John 13:31 hOTE OUN EXHLQEN, LEGEI IHSOUS: ***NUN ***EDOXASQH hO UIOS TOU
ANQRWPOU KAI hO QEOS EDOXASQH EN AUTW:

Using Mari's interpretation, "now is the son of man glorified, and God is
glorified in him." The glorification does not refer to the past - Jesus has
not yet been crucified - it refers to the "now" in the sentence. Exactly
when is a matter of interpretation (the time of Christ's crucifiction? the
time of his ascending into heaven? the time of his resurrection?), but it
clearly isn't in the past.

Roma 11:31 hOUTWS KAI hOUTOI ***NUN ***HPEIQHSAN TW hUMETERW ELEEI, hINA KAI
AUTOI ***(NUN) ***ELEHQWSIN.

Traditionally: "these also *were* disobedient"
Mari: "these also *are* disobedient"

In context, though, it is clear that they still *are* disobedient. The
contrast is that the Christians *were* disobedient, and the Jews *are*
disobedient, but just as the Christians were shown mercy when they were
disobedient, the Jews will now be shown mercy because of the mercy that has
been shown to the Christians:

Roma 11:28 (NASU) From the standpoint of the gospel they are enemies for
your sake, but from the standpoint of [God's] choice they are beloved for
the sake of the fathers; 29 for the gifts and the calling of God are
irrevocable. 30 For just as you once were disobedient to God, but now have
been shown mercy because of their disobedience, 31 so these also now have
been disobedient, that because of the mercy shown to you they also may now
be shown mercy.

-----

The rest of the passages are, IMHO, capable of either Mari's interpretation
or the traditional interpretation:

Ephe 3:5 hO ETERAIS GENEAIS OUK EGNWRISQH TOIS hUIOIS TWN ANQRWPWN hWS
***NUN ***APEKALUFQH TOIS AGIOIS APOSTOLOIS AUTOU KAI PROFHTAIS EN PNEUMATI,

Mari: "as it is now revealed"
Traditional: "as it now has been revealed".
Either reading seems plausible.

Matt 26:65 TOTE hO ARCIEREUS DIERRHXEN TA IMATIA AUTOU LEGWN: EBLASFHMHSEN:
TI ETI CREIAN ECOMEN MARTURWN; IDE ***NUN HKOUSATE*** THN BLASFHMIAN:

Traditional: "now we have heard the blasphemy"
Mari: "now we hear the blasphemy", as in, "why worry about witnesses, now we
*hear* the blasphemy, let's crucify this guy".
Either reading seems plausible.

1Pet 1:12 hOIS APEKALUFQH hOTI OUC hEAUTOIS hUMIN DE DIHKONOUN AUTA, hA
***NUN ***ANHGGELH hUMIN DIA TWN EUAGGELISAMENWN hUMAS (EN) PNEUMATI hAGIW
APOSTALENTI AP OURANOU, EIS hA EPIQUMOUSIN AGGELOI PARAKUYAI.

Traditional: "now has been revealed to you"
Mari: "is now revealed to you"
Either reading seems plausible.

If I'm misinterpreting Mari, I hope she'll point that out here.

Jonathan

***************************************************************************
Jonathan Robie
POET Software, 3207 Gibson Road, Durham, N.C., 27703
Ph: 919.598.5728 Fax: 919.598.6728
email: jwrobie@mindspring.com, jonathan@poet.com
http://www.poet.com <--- shockwave enabled!
***************************************************************************