b-greek-digest V1 #623

b-greek-digest             Tuesday, 21 March 1995       Volume 01 : Number 623

In this issue:

        Re: Unwanted Guest (cba)
        Re: cba@cba.onramp.net ?
        Re: Publications...
        Re: TAXA plus indicative or subjunctive?


From: cba@onramp.net
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 1995 20:19:47 cst
Subject: Re: Unwanted Guest (cba)

>   I have tried to post to this person to tell them to refrain from
>activity but the mail daemon claimed that no such site exists! Perhaps
we are
>being inundated by a hacker of sorts. Perhaps we should contact the
folks at
>U. of Vir.
>Bill Parkinson
Sorry for all the problems, but CBA (Center For Biblical Analysis)
isn't the one causing them.  Something went wrong at Onramp
Technologies and their computer messed up my e-mail, it was beyond

I hope that Onramp has everything in working order.  If you have
questions or comments, please direct them to Onramp.  

Jim Myers


From: Kenneth Litwak <kenneth@sybase.com>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 95 15:30:35 PST
Subject: Re: cba@cba.onramp.net ?

   My group;s UNIX server has been hosed all weekend, so not only did I not
get messages with strange formats, but I didn't get much of anything.  If there
are posts from the wekend you think I might want to read, please send 
me a copy (no, thi s is not an attempt to avoid seeing unsubscribe
requests, but I suppose it will do that).  Thanks.

Ken Litwak
Emeryville, CA


From: eoakley@iadfw.net
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 1995 20:24:33 -0800
Subject: [none]

  In John 1:26 John the Baptist is quoted as saying "but 
among you stands one you do not know."  Does the Greek 
here imply that Jesus was one of the Pharisees gathered 
around John or that He may have just been standing in the 
vacinity during this dialogue?

                    Thanks in advance
                    Everett R. Oakley


From: Micheal Palmer <mpalmes@email.unc.edu>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 00:01:13 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Publications...

On Mon, 20 Mar 1995, MADAVIDS.US.ORACLE.COM wrote:

> There have been many discussions on which Greek grammar(s) and lexicons to 
> use, but few on which journals and publications are of value to those of us 
> who want to learn more about NT Greek, textual criticism, and so forth. 
> Specifically, I am looking for something readable for the average linguistic 
> hack (i.e. something not overly laden with academic-speak).   
> While no one publication can substitute for years of study, I'd like to try to 
> keep current with latest theories, discussions, arguments, and so on in the NT 
> realm.  

A good journal to start with is _Filologia Neotestamentaria_. The 
journal (published in Spain, but widely available in the US) treats 
issues of syntax, semantics, discourse analysis and other issues in 
which linguistics can have an impact on the way we understand New 
Testament Greek. Articles are published in English, Spanish, German (and 
I think French). I don't have a copy with me, but I'll try to get my 
hands on one in the next few days to send publication information.

Micheal W. Palmer
Mellon Research Fellow
Department of Linguistics
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill


From: Micheal Palmer <mpalmes@email.unc.edu>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 00:18:25 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: TAXA plus indicative or subjunctive?

On Mon, 20 Mar 1995, Carl W Conrad wrote:

> On Mon, 20 Mar 1995, Gregory Bloomquist wrote:
> > 
> > Furthermore: how does one ascertain WHETHER one is dealing with a 
> > hypothetical or a potential, if the morphology itself does not make 
> > that clear?
> Shooting from the hip, as usual, but having thought for a little bit, I 
> don't see what distinction Greek would draw between a hypothetical and a 
> potential condition. Classical Greek clearly distinguishes between the 
> potential, "should-would" or "future less vivid" construction, where both 
> protasis and apodosis are in the optative (usually present tense)--and 
> the present counter-factual construction, where both clauses are in the 
> imperfect indicative. However, with the optative all but dropping out of 
> lower-level Hellenistic Greek, the possibilities for distinction become 
> more limited. I really wonder whether there's sufficient evidence 
> compiled to formulate a principle descriptive of actual Hellenistic 
> practice in this matter. This really should go to the H-Gram list; 
> where's Micheal Palmer these days? 

Well, here I am. I agree, Carl. In the New Testament anyway (most of 
which would fit your lower-level Hellenistic Greek category) the optative 
is severly restricted. Most of Paul's uses of the optative are in the 
frozen phrase MH GENOITO, though he does use the optative occasionally in 
a productive (non-frozen) way. It appears somewhat more freely in 
Luke-Acts, but even there it is far more restricted than in Classical 
Greek. In Epictetus' _Discourses_ the optative is used freely in the 
introductory material, but this comes from Arrian sometime later than 
Epictetus and representing a higher level of the koine.

In short, the severe restrictions on the use of the optative, and the 
difference in its usage at different social/educational levels in the 
hellenistic period make formulating neat rules for distinguishing 
potential and hypothetical conditions all but impossible at this point. 
We need a good study of the uses of the optative in the hellenistic 
period before we can formulate such distinctions with precision, and even 
after such a study it may prove impossible. For now we are much more 
dependent on the larger context of discourse for making these 

Micheal W. Palmer
Mellon Research Fellow
Department of Linguistics
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill


End of b-greek-digest V1 #623


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