b-greek-digest V1 #637

b-greek-digest            Wednesday, 29 March 1995      Volume 01 : Number 637

In this issue:

        Re: Re, "This generation..." etc.
        Re: NT Ministry
        Re: "This generation ...": Mk 13:34 par.; Mk 9:1 par.


From: Carl W Conrad <cwconrad@artsci.wustl.edu>
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 19:42:02 -0600 (GMT-0600)
Subject: Re: Re, "This generation..." etc.

Good for you, Rod. We Missourians have to stick together. God willing, 
we'll have baseball yet this year, and maybe another I-70 World Series 
between the Cardinals and the Royals.

Apologies to the list for this outburst.

Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University
One Brookings Drive, St. Louis, MO 63130, USA
(314) 935-4018
cwconrad@artsci.wustl.edu  OR cwc@oui.com


From: Larry Swain <lswain@wln.com>
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 21:28:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: NT Ministry

This response has more hermeneutic in it than discussing biblical greek, 
so for those who may not be interested or object, I apologize and invite 
you to delete this now.

Leo-you're alive!!  Your terminal had been silent so long that I was 
> My problem with this line of reasoning is that it misses the emphasis of 
> the text itself.  Jesus does indeed command the "eleven" to go and make 
> disciples, but he also tells them here to DIDASKONTEJ AUTOUJ THREIN PANTA 
> OSA ENTEILAMHN UMIN (i.e., teaching them to observe all things that I have 
> commanded you).  Jesus commands the "eleven" to teach people in all nations 
> "all" that he has commanded them, including (IMO) Matt 28!  So, the passage 
> itself implies that this command was for all people who consider themselves 
> disciples of Christ simply because they (like the "eleven") should disciple 
> others in the commands Jesus has given them.  What do you think?

Wheels within wheels.  1) What has been made of these verses is something 
that was not intended in the text.  It has been into "making people 
Christians, converting them to a religion" rather than making disciples.  
There are many who fill pews on Sunday, or cell groups, who fit the bill 
of "Christian" but are not disciples, nor is the church taking g any 
steps to rectify that fact.  Secondly, we have made this into a command 
that applies to us as individuals.  I would maintain that this is a 
corporate instruction-we post-enlightenment folk are very self centered.  
But the ancient wasn't as individual minded as we are.  To follow Leo's 
logic, it is the ECCLESIA which is to go into all the world to make 
disciple, not mine alone.  I take part in it because I am part of the 
church and the body.  That may or may not involve me going to Africa or 
Europe.  2)

 2) Let me use another part of the NT to illustrate.  In I Cor 12 Paul 
Well, Jesus didn't invite the women at the tomb who certainly would have 
qualified as disciples, nor were any of the 70 invited to the designated 
mountain top.  So while all of Jesus' instructions are incumbunt upon the 
church it seemst that these 11 whom we call apostles were given a 
specific instruction and specific commission.  And I think we find this 
in all NT ministry-those set apart to be a specific thing that is 
enjoined generally upon all.  I would point out an OT parallel.  In Ex 19 
were are told of a "nation of cohenim" priests, and yet we have only one 
tribe who serves the tabernacle, and one family of that tribe who is 
priests.  So we all are prophets, apostles, disciplers, teachers, miracle 
workers, prayer warriors, etc.  At the same time there are those who have 
been specifically set apart for the task.

3) If Dt 34 is any parallel as I pointed out in my previous post then we 
have a nice parallel here as well.  For it is Dt that instructs the 
Israelites to teach the Torah to their children, and then again instructs 
the Levites to teach it to the Israelites, and then entrusts the whole to 
Joshua.  Are all Israel in Joshua's role?  Of course not.  Are all Israel 
Levites?  Nope.  Is all Israel to know the Torah and to teach it, yes.  
Is all Israel to hear their instructors read the Torah, yes.  Is  all 
Israel, including Levites, to follow the chosen leader into the Land, yes.

And so with apologies for length and repetition, I say again, wheels 
within wheels.

Larry Swain
Parmly Billings Library


From: George Baloglou <baloglou@oswego.oswego.edu>
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 00:59:18 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: "This generation ...": Mk 13:34 par.; Mk 9:1 par.

On Mon, 27 Mar 1995, Vincent Broman wrote:

> baloglou@oswego.oswego.edu surmised:
> > ...PANTA TAUTA (which I suspect
> > to be vastly more common than TAUTA PANTA in all forms of Greek...
> In the NT, PANTA TAUTA occurs in 4-7 verses, depending on text,
> and TAUTA PANTA in about 14 verses, depending on text.
> The order of this word pair frequently varies between MSS.
> Did Greek usage change over the centuries with respect to this phrase?

I suppose ... There is no question that 19 centuries is a long time.

While I can confidently say that the average church goer (with a high
school education) in Greece has a decent understanding of the New
Testement, extrapolating from modern Greek while exegeting is certainly
"risky by definition"--but not necessarily counterproductive, I hope :-) 

This brings to my mind a question that I wanted to ask for some time: 
how far ahead into the centuries can one "normally" go while trying to 
analyse a word or expression that is rare in the NT itself? What type of 
problems are typical in such excursions? There must exist papers on this 
topic, and I would be grateful to have some references.

George Baloglou

"Memory of my people, your name is Pindos, your name is Athos" ("AXION ESTI")



End of b-greek-digest V1 #637


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