[Prev][Next][Index][Thread]

b-greek-digest V1 #860




b-greek-digest          Thursday, 14 September 1995    Volume 01 : Number 860

In this issue:

        Greek "Hangman"  done (BBG) 
        Re: Paul
        Beta Code?
        Re: SHMEION TOU UIOU ANQRWPOU
        Re: SHMEION TOU UIOU ANQRWPOU 
        Re: Paul
        Re: SHMEION TOU UIOU ANQRWPOU
        Style Analysis 
        Re: Beta Code?
        Style Analysis
        Re: Beta Code?
        Greek email font??
        Acts 15:16-18
        Re: Style Analysis
        Re: B-GRK Q? Black 1988
        Mark 16 (Oh, no, not again?) 
        Fw: BG: transliteration schemes 

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Bill Mounce <billm@teknia.com>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 22:23:55 -0700
Subject: Greek "Hangman"  done (BBG) 

My Greek hangman game for the Macintosh is done!

"Peter's Faith" can be downloaded from my ftp site and used for free. It
uses the story of Peter walking on the water. You choose the chapters in
BASICS OF BIBLICAL GREEK, it gets the vocabulary, mixes them, and then
plays the game. With every mistake you shift to the next scene in the
story. Great graphics and sound! Your students will love it, and it will
help provide that periodically needed break from first year Greek (or any
year, really).

"Peter's Faith" is writeware. If you use it, please write and tell me,
especially if you find any problems with it.

When you get it, click anywhere on the screen for a popup menu with the
different options, including "Help."

It can be downloaded from "on-ramp.ior.com" in the directory
"usr/billm/greek/mac". Log on as anonymous.
You need both "Peter.sea.bin" (628 K) and "SCPlayer.sea.bin" (638 K). Sorry
about the size, but multimedia is worth it. The second file is the
SuperCard Player. I kept it separate from the program to make subsequent
games smaller to download. It can also be downloaded directly from
Allegiant at "allegiant.com" (or "www.allegiant.com" on the Web) in the
directory "SuperCard/SuperCard-Player/SuperCard-Player-2.5.sit.hqx".

"Peter's Faith" requires a Macintosh (68020 or greater), a 14" color
monitor (256 colors minimum, 640 x 480 pixel display), System 7,  5
megabytes of RAM available, and 4 megabytes available on the hard disk.

I hope it helps your students learn Greek.




Bill Mounce

- -------------------------------

Teknia Software, Inc.
1306 W. Bellwood Drive
Spokane, WA  99218-2911

Internet: billm@teknia.com (preferred)
AOL: Mounce
CIS: 71540,2140 (please, only if necessary)

"It may be Greek to you, but it is life to me."



------------------------------

From: Shaughn Daniel <zxmli05@student.uni-tuebingen.de>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 1995 07:31:07 +0000
Subject: Re: Paul

Larry,

Your reference to Hengel's book made me pick it up again. I read the thing
back in 1992 when I first came to Tuebingen. I didn't realize all the good
stuff in there.

CONCERNING SAUL THE PERSECUTOR

Hengel mentions Saul as in the "subordinate" position of keeping the coats
at Stephen's stoning. I reread the passage in Ac to which Hengel refers in
an endnote and began to wonder a lot of things.

1. Who are the MARTURES of Ac 7.58 and what is their function at the event?

2. Is "laying coats at the feet of s.o." a Jewish or ANE practice of some
special sort? If the MARTURES is not the same group who is dragging out and
stoning Stephen, then this could have some sort of symbolic meaning, not
necessarily a "subordinate" meaning, but one of exhaltation or honoring.
The imaginative stage: Saul was there as a teacher/defender of the law
(just like the scenarios of all the Pharisee groups that are asking and
debating questions with Jesus in the gospels). Stephen's speech is
'recorded', but it was part of a debate between many folks, probably even
including Saul. I know, a lot of imagination, but just wondering while
typing. The witnesses are there to decide who wins. The witnesses lay their
coats at Saul's feet, symbolically announcing his victory (and maybe he got
paid for winning, too, since his subsequent preaching of the Gospel after
conversion is without pay--at least that is what my mirror-reader says).
The crowd runs Stephen out and stones him. In this scheme of things, Saul
could have actually been stoned on that day, instead he "gives approval" to
the stoning of Stephen (maybe Saul was making a decision among disciplinary
procedures of flogging, imprisoning, whipping, or stoning; hence, Saul's
decision is for stoning (Saul could be seen as an extension of the
Sanhedrin court, the same in which Peter and the other apostles were
flogged--this would also mark a division within Gamaliel's school, of
course, all this is assuming that the Gamaliel in Ac is Paul's teacher--I
mean Gamaliel's ending of his speech does become a self-fulfilling prophecy
for Saul, e.g., "fighting against God" and "kicking the goads" as two
loosely connected ideas). The "young" Saul won and increased in popularity
among the other churches (synagogues?) outside. So when Saul was coming to
town, then everyone was hoping that they had been nice, not naughty. (Now
if someone can give me some evidence, then I'll prove the vision I've just
had. =)

All of this may not be very original, but it represents my hearing of the
spirits today in Tuebingen.

Tschuss,
Shaughn Daniel
Tuebingen, Germany



------------------------------

From: J.D.F.van_Halsema@esau.th.vu.nl
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 95 11:57:22 EET
Subject: Beta Code?

I tried to use the beautiful site at the Internet:
	http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/
Which claims to offer, e.g., an online Liddell Scott Jones.
I was requested to use the 'Beta Code' for transcribing Greek characters.
No information on this code is available at Persues (as far as I can see).
Does anyone of B-GREEK have an url to information about the beta code?

Thanks!

- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Erik van Halsema                 |Research Assistant Vrije Universiteit
j.d.f.van_halsema@esau.th.vu.nl  |Faculty of Theology
jdfvh@dds.nl                     |De Boelelaan 1105,  1081 HV  Amsterdam,  NL
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
			negat quis: nego; ait: aio.
	   (Terentius, Eunuchus II.2.21; Cicero, De Amicitia XXV.93)
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------


------------------------------

From: "Carl W. Conrad" <cwconrad@artsci.wustl.edu>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 1995 06:34:15 -0500
Subject: Re: SHMEION TOU UIOU ANQRWPOU

Carlton Winbery wrote (Wed, 13 Sep 1995 14:00:57 -0400):

'"The Kingdom of God having come with Power" (9:1) and "This generation will
not pass away until all these things happen" 13:30 do not have to refer to
the same thing, but certainly would refer to things that Mark conceived were
close at hand.  the reference in 9:1 refers to the realization by the
disciples beyond the cross of the true nature of the Kingdom.  The
resurrection means that the Kingdom of God is present in a way that it cannot
be stoped by the threat od death.  In 13:30 followed as it is by 31 is a
prophetic declaration that the fall of Jerusalem will surely happen and
cannot be stopped.'

Perhaps I am being stubborn, but I still find it difficult to square the
phrasing of the saying at Mark 9:1, in particular the perfect participle
ELHLUQUIAN and the phrase EN DUNAMEI with the coming of the disciples to
the inner conviction of the meaning of the resurrection (as I take it
that's what you mean by "the realization by the disciples beyond the cross
of the true nature of the Kingdom"). The phrasing seems to me to be too
concrete and powerful to refer to a spiritual anagnorisis. Moreover, it has
been preceded by some very strong apocalyptic warnings about implications
of failure to take discipleship fully seriously, in particular, 8:38:

        hOS GAR EAN EPAISXUNQHi ME KAI TOUS EMOUS LOGOUS EN THi GENEAi TAUTHi
        THi MOIXALIDI KAI hAMARTWLWi, KAI hO hUIOS TOU ANQRWPOU EPAISXUNQH-
        SETAI AUTON, hOTAN ELQHi EN THi DOXHi TOU PATROS AUTOU META TWN
        ANGGELWN TWN hAGIWN.

And that is the verse that immediately precedes the assertion that some
standing in the audience will not die before they see the Kingdom "having
arrived with power." I still don't see how the reference can be to anything
other than what we have traditionally called the Parousia, although I grant
that Mark doesn't use that Greek word.

Mind, I'm not saying that this is necessarily a Jesus-citation given by
Mark in its original form, but I think it expresses Mark's understanding of
the temporal framework within which he and the community for whom he writes
think of their evangelistic mission and the imminent consummation to which
it will lead.

Moreover, is the Pauline evidence that we rehearsed in the discussion with
Jan Haugland to be set aside? Not that Paul's evidence PROVES that Mark
anticipates an imminent Parousia, but rather that it certainly appears to
demonstrate an expectation on Paul's part of a return of Jesus within the
lives of the communities he founded.

Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University
One Brookings Drive, St. Louis, MO, USA 63130
(314) 935-4018
cwconrad@artsci.wustl.edu  OR cwc@oui.com
WWW: http://www.artsci.wustl.edu/~cwconrad/



------------------------------

From: WINBROW@aol.com
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 1995 09:10:50 -0400
Subject: Re: SHMEION TOU UIOU ANQRWPOU 

Carl Conrad wrote,
>I think it expresses Mark's understanding of the temporal framework within
which he and the community for whom he writes think of their evangelistic
mission and the imminent consummation to which it will lead.<
>Moreover, is the Pauline evidence that we rehearsed in the discussion with
Jan Haugland to be set aside? Not that Paul's evidence PROVES that Mark
anticipates an imminent Parousia, but rather that it certainly appears to
demonstrate an expectation on Paul's part of a return of Jesus within the
lives of the communities he founded.<

We agree that the bringing together of these statements express Mark's
understanding of the situation and present danger and needed response for his
readers.  I am well aware that Paul certainly expected the PAROUSIA in his
life time, but Mark's concerns seem to me to suppose a different need, i.e.,
to separate disciples in Palestine (I can't make the location more specific
than that.) from the enterprize of seeking to defend Jerusalem of Israel from
the Romans.  We know that there was some concern by the early disciples
concerning that.  I think Luke reflects feelings by Jewish Christians in
Jerusalem by the question they asked the risen Lord, "Will you at this time
restore the Kingdom to Israel?' (Acts 1).  The realization of the true nature
of the Kingdom was a difficult thing to accomplish among those who grew up
thinking that the first thing Messiah would do would be to free Jerusalem
from the Romans.  This was not accomplished until Jerusalem was no more, but
perhaps (we all are guessing here) Mark realized it before the actual event.
 Paul still was in a hurry to get back to Jerusalem to celibrate Pentecost in
the temple just about ten years before Mark wrote.
I'm still working on this as you can see.
Carlton Winbery
La College, Pineville, LA

------------------------------

From: David Moore <dvdmoore@dcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 1995 10:51:13 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Paul

Shaughn Daniel <zxmli05@student.uni-tuebingen.de> wrote:

>Larry,

>Your reference to Hengel's book made me pick it up again. I read the thing
>back in 1992 when I first came to Tuebingen. I didn't realize all the good
>stuff in there.

>CONCERNING SAUL THE PERSECUTOR

>Hengel mentions Saul as in the "subordinate" position of keeping the coats
>at Stephen's stoning. I reread the passage in Ac to which Hengel refers in
>an endnote and began to wonder a lot of things.
>
>1. Who are the MARTURES of Ac 7.58 and what is their function at the event?

>2. Is "laying coats at the feet of s.o." a Jewish or ANE practice of some
>special sort? If the MARTURES is not the same group who is dragging out and
>stoning Stephen, then this could have some sort of symbolic meaning, not
>necessarily a "subordinate" meaning, but one of exhaltation or honoring.
>The imaginative stage: Saul was there as a teacher/defender of the law
>(just like the scenarios of all the Pharisee groups that are asking and
>debating questions with Jesus in the gospels). Stephen's speech is
>'recorded', but it was part of a debate between many folks, probably even
>including Saul. I know, a lot of imagination, but just wondering while
>typing. The witnesses are there to decide who wins. The witnesses lay their
>coats at Saul's feet, symbolically announcing his victory (and maybe he got
>paid for winning, too, since his subsequent preaching of the Gospel after
>conversion is without pay--at least that is what my mirror-reader says).
>The crowd runs Stephen out and stones him. In this scheme of things, Saul
>could have actually been stoned on that day, instead he "gives approval" to
>the stoning of Stephen (maybe Saul was making a decision among disciplinary
>procedures of flogging, imprisoning, whipping, or stoning; hence, Saul's
>decision is for stoning (Saul could be seen as an extension of the
>Sanhedrin court, the same in which Peter and the other apostles were
>flogged--this would also mark a division within Gamaliel's school, of
>course, all this is assuming that the Gamaliel in Ac is Paul's teacher--I
>mean Gamaliel's ending of his speech does become a self-fulfilling prophecy
>for Saul, e.g., "fighting against God" and "kicking the goads" as two
>loosely connected ideas). The "young" Saul won and increased in popularity
>among the other churches (synagogues?) outside. So when Saul was coming to
>town, then everyone was hoping that they had been nice, not naughty. (Now
>if someone can give me some evidence, then I'll prove the vision I've just
>had. =)

	Although I'm not certain to which of Hengle's works you're
referring, since I'm not subscribed to ioudaios-l where Larry's message
was apparently posted, allow me to comment on the meaning of the witnesses
laying their coats at the feet of Paul. 

	The witnesses are most probably those mentioned in Deut. 17:7
which says, "The hand of the witnesses shall be first against him to put
him to death."  This, in turn refers to the two or three witnesses
required for conviction in any capital offense (v. 6).  In applying this
to Paul, we see someone who apparently did not take a direct part in
putting Stephen to death.  Nevertheless, his actions show that he was in
accord with those who did the actual stoning.  Something like, "You're
going to stone Stephen?  Here, let me hold your coat."  This scenario
would also agree with Luke's report of Paul's recollection of the incident
(Acts 22:20). 


David L. Moore                             Southeastern Spanish District
Miami, Florida                               of the  Assemblies of God
dvdmoore@dcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us           Department of Education



------------------------------

From: "Carl W. Conrad" <cwconrad@artsci.wustl.edu>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 1995 10:34:27 -0500
Subject: Re: SHMEION TOU UIOU ANQRWPOU

At 8:10 AM 9/14/95, WINBROW@aol.com wrote:
>We agree that the bringing together of these statements express Mark's
>understanding of the situation and present danger and needed response for his
>readers.  I am well aware that Paul certainly expected the PAROUSIA in his
>life time, but Mark's concerns seem to me to suppose a different need, i.e.,
>to separate disciples in Palestine (I can't make the location more specific
>than that.) from the enterprize of seeking to defend Jerusalem of Israel from
>the Romans.  We know that there was some concern by the early disciples
>concerning that.  I think Luke reflects feelings by Jewish Christians in
>Jerusalem by the question they asked the risen Lord, "Will you at this time
>restore the Kingdom to Israel?' (Acts 1).  The realization of the true nature
>of the Kingdom was a difficult thing to accomplish among those who grew up
>thinking that the first thing Messiah would do would be to free Jerusalem
>from the Romans.  This was not accomplished until Jerusalem was no more, but
>perhaps (we all are guessing here) Mark realized it before the actual event.
> Paul still was in a hurry to get back to Jerusalem to celibrate Pentecost in
>the temple just about ten years before Mark wrote.

I quite agree that ONE central concern in Mark is a warning to Mark's
Palestinian contemporaries to steer clear of the politics of the
freedom-fighters and any notion that that had anything to do with the
Kingdom's coming. There are other pointers in the same direction, such as
the warning to keep away from the "yeast" of the Pharisees and Herodians
(8:15), even the way Mark underscores the fact that Barabbas the
"seditionist" was released in place of Jesus for the Passover; whether
factual or not, the emphasis on this point is, I think Marcan. Where I
think I tend to disagree with you, Carlton, is on the extent to which this
is THE central concern in Mark (we also agree upon the importance of
suffering discipleship that is fundamentally evangelism, I think) and
whether Mark fully espouses a message predicated upon what we traditionally
refer to as the "delay of the Parousia." I don't think that he does; I
think he sees an interval between the sack of Jerusalem and the Temple and
the consummation, but I don't think he sees it as a very long one or one
that requires a purely spiritual reading of 8:30-9:1. The END is not
identical with the end of Jerusalem and the Temple, but thier end is
nevertheless part of the sequence leading to THE END. Or so I am still
inclined to think is the case for Mark.

Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University
One Brookings Drive, St. Louis, MO, USA 63130
(314) 935-4018
cwconrad@artsci.wustl.edu  OR cwc@oui.com
WWW: http://www.artsci.wustl.edu/~cwconrad/



------------------------------

From: Kenneth Litwak <kenneth@sybase.com>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 95 08:41:15 PDT
Subject: Style Analysis 

Mark,

   I think I have an example of just what you may be looking for (not a
set of principles, but at least an example of such a procedure for
using style as a decisive factor in a textual decision).  In Mark 6:23,
Metzger's Commentary on UBS3, argues for the reading POLLA because it is
characteristic of Markan style (1:45, 3:12, 5:10, et al).  You'll note
that this leads the committee to choose to retain the word, in spite of
good external evidence against it.  I know you were hoping for more like
a book-length treatment, but this is at least something.  Then again,
one would have to do fairly exhaustive analysis of both a specific
book in the NT and of all Greek writing from the 1st cent. to be able
to say that xxxx is characteristic of a particular author's "style"
as opposed to just a fairly common trait of similar Greek literature.
Without a somewhat distinctive practice, like introducing every
story with a genitive absolute, for example (and Carl will no doubt
tell me that some dead Greek author I've never heard of does that all
the time)  or heavy use of the future participle or something else
uncommon, I'd be very wary of attributing something to someone's style
to the degree that it could be decisive in textual decisions.  That's
just my $.02 (or $.0199345 on a Pentium).  

Ken Litwak
GTU
Bezerkley, CA

------------------------------

From: David Moore <dvdmoore@dcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 1995 11:48:33 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Beta Code?

J.D.F.van_Halsema@esau.th.vu.nl wrote

>I tried to use the beautiful site at the Internet:
>	http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/
>Which claims to offer, e.g., an online Liddell Scott Jones.
>I was requested to use the 'Beta Code' for transcribing Greek characters.
>No information on this code is available at Persues (as far as I can see).
>Does anyone of B-GREEK have an url to information about the beta code?

	Beta code is the alphabetic equivalance system that is used by the
CCAT people for encoding Greek texts.  The Greek references that one most
often sees on this list are quoted in an adapted form of this same "Beta
code." 

	I logged on to the website that Eric mentions above and found it a
tremendous resource.  The Beta code has to be entered in lower case
letters for the search engine to recognize it (i.e. lamba/nw, not
LAMBA/NW).  They have a number of ancient works in Greek which can easily
be searched for instances of any word being reasearched.  For those who
have a Mac, you get the bonus of being able to access this stuff with
Greek fonts. 

Thanks,


David L. Moore                             Southeastern Spanish District
Miami, Florida                               of the  Assemblies of God
dvdmoore@dcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us           Department of Education



------------------------------

From: "Edgar M. Krentz" <emkrentz@mcs.com>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 1995 11:18:20 -0600
Subject: Style Analysis

You have received some good advice. Read carefully that 4th volume of
Moulton-Howard-Turner's _Grammar_. You will learn there to pay attention to
Semitisms, to word order, etc.

Let me add one or two other items to the list. You might want to look at
descriptions of Greek style in the world of the world of the New
Testament--and see if they apply to any or all of the NT documents. James
Moffatt was sure that the author of Hebrews used ancient rhetorical devices
(see his commentary in the ICC series).

A standard word on the analysis of Greek style in the classical world is

J[ohn] D[ewar] Denniston, _Greek Prose Style-. Oxford: Clarendon Press,
1952. He treats such items as abstract expressions, adjectival
qualifications of abstractions, use of the articular infinitive, word order
(interlacing, separation of article from substantive, etc.), sentence
structure and antithesis, repetition (through various devides such as
anaphora, MEN ...DE, antistrophe, etc.), asyndeton, etc. You will find
there a plethora of stylistic items that can be analyzed. 

You may also want to read descriptions of style in aancient and modern
writers. The best ancient authors to read are:

Demetrius "On Style" [PERI SUNQESIS ONOMATWN] and Ps.-Longinus, "On the
Sublime" [PERI hUPSOUS]. Both are available in excellent translations by W.
Rhys Roberts in the same LCL volume as Aristotle's "Poetics." Roberts also
has earlier editions with commentary.

A useful introduction to the world of ancient literary criticism and style is:

D. A. Russel, _Criticism in Antiquity._ Berkeley and Los Angeles: U of
California Press, 1981. He deals with theories of style and the
classification of literature, inter alia.

Students of Greek style pay much attention to Greek particles,  and
conjunctions. It is often some of these "little words" that show a writer's
style. Does s/he use OUN often? regularly use MEN ... DE? Prefer DE to KAI
at the beginning of sentences? Use NUN DE to int roduce the true state of
affairs after an explicit or implied statement contrary to fact? Here you
might waant to consult two works:

J[ohn] D[ewar] Denniston,_The Greek Particles_. 2nd ed. Oxford: Clarendon
Press, 1954 (658 pages!)

Margaret E. Thrall, _Greek Particles in the New Testament_. Grand Rapids:
Eerdmans, 1962.

Finally, you need to have available a truly good computer concordance
program that uses a tagged text. Here you can discover whether a writer
uses a certain complex of words consistently, etc.

Happy hunting!


Edgar Krentz <emkrentz@mcs.com>
New Testament, Lutheran School of Theology at Chicago
Voice: 312-753-0752; FAX: 312-753-0782



------------------------------

From: "James D. Ernest" <ernest@mv.mv.com>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 1995 15:41:40 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Beta Code?

Prof. van H.
If you gopher to ccat.sas.upenn.edu and look around there you
should be able to find a document you can download giving a
complete table for beta code.  If you can't find it and need it
let me know and I can find a copy to zap to you.

- -----------------------------------------------------------------
James D. Ernest                            Joint Doctoral Program
Manchester, New Hampshire, USA      Andover-Newton/Boston College
Internet: ernest@mv.mv.com           Chestnut Hill, Massachusetts



------------------------------

From: Karl_Schulte-CKS005@email.mot.com
Date: 14 Sep 95 15:27:15 -0500
Subject: Greek email font??

Greetings,
Does anyone know of a Mac font for email in Greek? There is "Symbol" but it 
won't run on emAil (at least not for me).
If not, what is the transliteration standard you use here?  I've figured out 
most of it, but want to be understood if I should send a text excerpt.
Thank You
Karl

------------------------------

From: Jim Beale <jbeale@gdeb.com>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 95 19:08:48 EDT
Subject: Acts 15:16-18

Friends,

I have a question concerning the text of Acts 15:16-18. The difference
between the MT and the NU are slightly confusing to me. Perhaps
someone will help me understand this a little better.

Majority (Byzantine):
   16 META TAUTA ANASTREYW KAI ANOIKODOMHSW THN SKHNHN DAUID 
   THN PEPTWKUIAN KAI TA KATESKAMMENA AUTHS ANOIKODOMHSW 
   KAI ANORQWSW AUTHN

   17 OPWS AN EKZHTHSWSIN OI KATALOIPOI TWN ANQRWPWN TON 
   KURION KAI PANTA TA EQNH EF OUS EPIKEKLHTAI TO ONOMA 
   MOU EP AUTOUS LEGEI KURIOS O POIWN TAUTA PANTA 

   18 GNWSTA AP AIWNOS ESTIN TW QEW PANTA TA ERGA AUTOU

Critical (NA26):
   16 META TAUTA ANASTREYW KAI ANOIKODOMHSW THN SKHNHN DAUID 
   THN PEPTWKUIAN KAI TA KATESKAMMENA AUTHS ANOIKODOMHSW 
   KAI ANORQWSW AUTHN 

   17 OPWS AN EKZHTHSWSIN OI KATALOIPOI TWN ANQRWPWN TON 
   KURION KAI PANTA TA EQNH EF OUS EPIKEKLHTAI TO ONOMA 
   MOU EP AUTOUS LEGEI KURIOS POIWN TAUTA

   18 GNWSTA AP AIWNOS 

If this is a quote from Amos 9:11-12 then it seems to be captured 
better in the MT than in the NU. The LXX actually has

   LEGEI KURIOS O QEOS O POIWN TAUTA  (LXX)
   LEGEI KURIOS O POIWN TAUTA PANTA   (MT)
   LEGEI KURIOS POIWN TAUTA           (NU)

But the real question for me is: Does verse 18 according to NU make any 
sense following this? In the MT, verses 16-17 seem to correspond to Amos
9:11-12 nicely, whereas vs. 18 seems to be either a quote from somewhere
else, or the thought of James. In the NU, on the other hand, vs. 18 is
conflated to the quotation of the OT, seemingly changing the meaning and
making for a very free quote indeed.

If GNWSTA AP AIWNOS follows LEGEI KURIOS POIWN TAUTA musn't the
translation of POIWN be "making" rather than the more common "doing"? 
This presents a problem to my thinking. In Amos 9:12, POIW=N is
definitely translated "doing" whereas if the NU is correct, the sense of
the original quote is lost. Also, it seems that POIW=N is usually
translated "doing" (18/23 in NT) and the context of Acts 15 seems to
require it.

I realize that "the shorter reading is the more probable reading" but is
that necessarily true? This case, at least to me, seems to favor the
longer reading. 

Any thoughts?

- --
In Christ,
Jim Beale
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
  The Logos is the true Light, which lights 
  every man that comes into the world.
  (John 1:9)

  And this is the true end set before the Soul, to take that light, 
  to see the Supreme by the Supreme and not by the light of any 
  other principle -- to see the Supreme which is also the means to 
  the vision; for that which illumines the Soul is that which it is 
  to see -- just as it is by the sun's own light that we see the sun. 
  (Plotinus, Fifth Ennead, Third Tractate)
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

From: joni@ccit.arizona.edu
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 1995 19:11:46 -0700 (MST)
Subject: Re: Style Analysis

Mark,

On Markan style you might find this helpful:

Pryke, E. J. <Redactional Style in the Markan Gospel: A Study of Syntax 
and Vocabulary as Guides to Redaction in Mark>. Cambridge University 
Press, 1978.

David Crawford
Tucson, Az.

------------------------------

From: Ken Penner <kpenner@unixg.ubc.ca>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 1995 19:21:25 -0800
Subject: Re: B-GRK Q? Black 1988

On 11 Sep 95 at 22:42, Vincent DeCaen wrote:

> I'm wondering about the fate of a little paperback I once picked
> up by David Alan Black, "Linguistics for Students of New
> Testament Greek: A Survey of Basic Concepts and Applications"
> (1988). The foreword by Moises Silva played an important role in
> my intellectual formation.
> 
> 1. I'm curious about critical reviews, about use in courses,
> about use in articles; but especially what people on the list
> might think.

Our third-year "Advanced Greek Readings" class at Regent uses it as 
the course textbook (got it right beside me now as a matter of 
fact), and I used it in Intro. Greek tutorial this afternoon to 
clarify the difference between the alpha, omicron, and omega 
sounds.

Ken Penner
Greek T.A., Regent College, Vancouver
kpenner@unixg.ubc.ca
New Home page location: http://netshop.net/~mwardle/kpenner.htm

------------------------------

From: Bruce Terry <terry@bible.acu.edu>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 1995 22:23:39 CST
Subject: Mark 16 (Oh, no, not again?) 

A common charge against the genuineness of the long ending of Mark being
original is that it contains 16 words that are not found in the undisputed
section of Mark (1:1-16:8).

Of those 16, 13 are used only once.  In postings in July and August, I showed
that in the 661 undisputed verses of Mark, there are 555 words used only once
in Mark.

This leaves three words used only in this section.  Two (APISTEW and QEAOMAI)
are used twice in the long ending and one (POREUOMAI) is used three times.

I have completed my analysis of words that are used more than once within a
twelve verse span of text and only within that span in Mark.  There are 77
such words in the undisputed verses of Mark plus 5 proper nouns.  If the
selection is limited to a six verse span (the largest span actually used in
16:9-20), the number of words drops to 58 plus 3 names.  The following chart
shows the distribution:

               Twelve Verse Spread                  Six Verse Spread
Times Used     words         names                 words        names
2 times         53             2                    42            1
3 times         14             2                    11            1
4 times          4             1                     4            1
5 times          5             -                     -            -
6 times          1             -                     1            -

The long ending of Mark has a unique-words-used-more-than-once to verse ratio
of .25.  For chapters this ratio varies from 0 for chapter 10 (with no such
words) to .25 for chapter 2 (7 such words in 28 verses).  The most notable
section is 2:18-22 with a ratio of 1 (5 such words in 5 verses: NHSTEUW [6
times], NUMFIOS [3 times], PALAIOS [3 times], NEOS [twice], and ASKOS [4
times]).  This section also contains at least 7 words that are used only once
in Mark, including 2 h.l.  (I'm having trouble deciding whether hRHGNUMI in
Mk. 2:22 and hRHSSW in Mk. 9:18 are the same or different words.  Moulton &
Geden and Kubo list them as the same, while Clapp, Friberg, & Friberg list
them separately.  I would appreciate any help anyone could give on this. 
Thanks.)

********************************************************************************
Bruce Terry                            E-MAIL: terry@bible.acu.edu
Box 8426, ACU Station		       Phone:  915/674-3759
Abilene, Texas 79699		       Fax:    915/674-3769
********************************************************************************

------------------------------

From: Bruce Terry <terry@bible.acu.edu>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 1995 22:34:09 CST
Subject: Fw: BG: transliteration schemes 

Since several people have inquired about Beta Code and other transliteration
schemes used on B-Greek, I am reposting this message of July 12.  Most
messages on B-Greek will use one of these six schemes, although you are free
to make up your own and dare the rest of us to figure it out.

- -----------------------------Forwarded Message-------------------------------

The following chart combines Carl Conrad's posting of three different schemes
of transliteration with my suggested modifications and the traditional digraph
scheme.  Any suggestions would be appreciated.
_____________________________________________________________________________

There is no standard transliteration scheme on B-Greek.  However, most people
will use one of the following six schemes.  Note that these schemes use either
upper case or lower case, not both, since a change in case may signify a
different letter.

LETTERS        TLG/CCAT       Simplified          Modified      Traditional
ACCENTS        Beta Code    CAPS     Lower      CAPS     Lower    Digraph

alpha              A         A         a         A         a         a
beta               B         B         b         B         b         b
gamma              G         G         g         G         g         g
delta              D         D         d         D         d         d
epsilon            E         E         e         E         e         e
zeta               Z         Z         z         Z         z         z
eta                H         H         E         H         E         E
theta              Q         Q         q         Q         q         th
iota               I         I         i         I         i         i
kappa              K         K         k         K         k         k
lambda             L         L         l         L         l         l
mu                 M         M         m         M         m         m
nu                 N         N         n         N         n         n
xi                 C         C         c         X         x         x
omicron            O         O         o         O         o         o
pi                 P         P         p         P         p         p
rho                R         R         r         R         r         r
sigma              S         S         s         S         s         s
tau                T         T         t         T         t         t
upsilon            U         U         u         U         u         u
phi                F         F         f         F         f         ph
chi                X         X         x         C         c         ch
psi                Y         Y         y         V         v         ps
omega              W         W         O         W         O         O
digamma            V         f                   w
koppa                        q                   q

iota subscript     |         i                   i
smooth breathing   )
rough breathing    (         h         (         h         h         h
acute accent       /         /         /         /
circumflex accent  =         @         =         ~
grave accent       \         \         \         \
diaeresis          +

The following are the same for all schemes.

upper case         *
 (following character is upper case)
apostrophe         '
hyphen             -
comma              ,
period             .
raised dot (colon) :
question mark      :
dash               _

Note that both medial and final sigma are transliterated the same.

Accents are usually omitted for all schemes except TLG unless they are
necessary for the sense of the post.

Breathing marks and the * to indicate upper-case are written at the beginning
of the word.

Accents and diacritical marks are written directly after the coding for the
character above and below which they are located in the source document.  They
follow the second character of a diphthong. 

Note on TLG/CCAT Beta code keyboard layout: This was originally created to
enable appropriate software programs to translate TLG coded texts into
different Greek fonts used by different platforms.

********************************************************************************
Bruce Terry                            E-MAIL: terry@bible.acu.edu
Box 8426, ACU Station		       Phone:  915/674-3759
Abilene, Texas 79699		       Fax:    915/674-3769
********************************************************************************

------------------------------

End of b-greek-digest V1 #860
*****************************

** FOR YOUR REFERENCE **

To unsubscribe from this list write

majordomo@virginia.edu

with "unsubscribe b-greek-digest" as your message content.  For other
automated services write to the above address with the message content
"help".

For further information, you can write the owner of the list at

owner-b-greek@virginia.edu

You can send mail to the entire list via the address:

b-greek@virginia.edu