b-greek-digest V1 #887

b-greek-digest           Wednesday, 4 October 1995     Volume 01 : Number 887

In this issue:

        Re: PISTIS in Romans 1, yet
        Romans 3:22-23 


From: drmills@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
Date: Tue, 03 Oct 1995 21:49:04 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: PISTIS in Romans 1, yet

On Tue, 3 Oct 1995, Mark O'Brien wrote:

> Original message sent on Mon, Oct 2  2:38 AM by eweiss@acf.dhhs.gov (Eric Weiss)
> :
> > All I can say is that I would think that what Paul means by 
> > the "EK PISTEWS" part should probably be akin to what it means in 
> > Habbakuk 2:4 (in the Greek) ... which leaves EIS PISTEWS and what 
> > the whole phrase means still up for debate.
> Interestingly, the word used in the Hebrew of Hab 2:4 is )EMW.NFH 
> (did I get that transliteration right?!?) which, although translated as
> "faith" by most versions, is probably better translated as 
> "faithfulness".  A word-study of all the occurences of this word
> indicates that it is unlikely that it should be rendered as "faith", and
> yet this is how the NT takes it on at least three occasions when 
> quoting this passage (Ro 1:17; Gal 3:11; Heb 10:38).  One could argue
> that the NT writers were using the LXX, but that has MOU modifying
> PISTEWS (if my memory serves me correctly), which seems to imply
> that the LXX folks took this faith to be *God's* faith in Hab 2:4, which 
> is not quite the way in which the NT is using the verse.  All in all, it's 
> a curious point to be pondered. 
> Mark O'Brien
In my original post I asked if the EK PISTEWS of the Habakkuk quotation 
might somehow encompass both EK PISTEWS and EIS PISTIN of the previous 
clause.  In other words, is there some way that "from faith to faith" 
equals the "by faithfulness" of Habakkuk?  By the way, if I deciphered the 
Hebrew correctly (its more Greek to me than Greek is), Habakkuk reads 
"his faithfulness" rather than the "my faithfulness" as in the LXX.

David R. Mills
Applied English Center
University of Kansas


From: Hal513@aol.com
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 23:30:21 -0400
Subject: unsubscribe 

unsubscribe b-greek


From: JClar100@aol.com
Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 00:18:45 -0400
Subject: Romans 3:22-23 

In regard to Romans 3:22 my assumption would be that DIA PISTEWS IHSOU
CHRISTOU can be equal to "through faith in Jesus Christ."  However, I'm still
struggling with the issue of whether PISTEWS is something which is the
possession of Jesus Christ ("the faith OF Jesus Christ") shared(given) with
humans by him or is it a self-generated abilitity to acknowledge Jesus Christ
("faith IN Jesus Christ")?  Theologically, I'm not inclined toward this
latter view but...  

In Romans 3:23 what is the strength of the distinction between "sinned"
(aorist tense) and "coming short" (present tense), if any?  Why not the
imperfect tense rather than the aorist?  I realize the danger of reading too
much into this and that the larger context should always be kept in mind.
 But this verse just doesn't make sense.  If the aorist tense is understood
as a one time completed action in the past, how could "all have sinned."  Is
Paul perhaps taking some poetic license here?

Am I trying to make too much out of the language?  Or have I taken my
instructors too seriously? 



End of b-greek-digest V1 #887


To unsubscribe from this list write


with "unsubscribe b-greek-digest" as your message content.  For other
automated services write to the above address with the message content

For further information, you can write the owner of the list at


You can send mail to the entire list via the address: