b-greek-digest V1 #905

b-greek-digest           Thursday, 12 October 1995     Volume 01 : Number 905

In this issue:

        Re: Janet Dove
        Re: Janet Dove and unwanted mailings
        Used book sources
        Q. on Metzger and Wikgren 
        Re: NA27 apparatus perplexity 
        Re: Needed:  a source for Hatch and Redpath 
        Used books - the list, finally 
        Re: 1Cor. 14:14
        Re: A.T.Robertson & Extra-NT Greek 
        Re: Used books - the list, finally 
        Re: Janet Dove
        Romans 4:7-8 
        Re: Husband of One Wife 


From: "Carl W. Conrad" <cwconrad@artsci.wustl.edu>
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 1995 14:42:24 -0500
Subject: Re: Janet Dove

At 12:17 PM 10/11/95, Dale M. Wheeler wrote:
>Is there no way to keep this ****** (you fill in the deleted explicative)
>Janet Dove and her magazine selling ******** (you fill in the proper
>derogatory description) off BGreek, etc.

For myself, I have adopted the motto, "Delete with abandon!" I've deleted
about 15 of these messages so far, I guess. Gee, I must subscribe to the
politically correct lists!

Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University
One Brookings Drive, St. Louis, MO, USA 63130
(314) 935-4018
cwconrad@artsci.wustl.edu  OR cwc@oui.com
WWW: http://www.artsci.wustl.edu/~cwconrad/


From: Leo Percer <PERCERL@baylor.edu>
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 1995 15:01:46 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: Janet Dove and unwanted mailings

Hello All:

I am writing a letter to the company and mailing it to them this afternoon. 
I also am considering sending them 15 copies of the junk they sent me 
(postage due, of course!).  I wish there were some way our list owner could 
screen out such junk, but like some others, I just "delete with abandon".
Oh well . . . .


Leo Percer
Waco, TX


From: Charles Misner <chasm@novagate.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 1995 16:18:33 -0400
Subject: Used book sources

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I have not seen a list of used book sources posted on b-greek (perhaps
because I'm pretty new to the list), but just in case there is no such list,
I would like to start one. I'd be happy to receive other sources to add to
the list if anyone knows of other used book stores that deal in Greek,
Biblical resources, etc., pertinent to the b-greek list. If you email the
information to me, I will include it on this first, and somewhat paltry
beginning list. (paltry in size only - these are my best sources!)
It would be good to check with such sources to see if they are willing to
search their stock in response to phone, fax, or mail requests. Not all are
equipped to do so. Perhaps we can build a list of sources that will be of
help to the b-greek folks.

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       Charlie Misner               Entia non sunt multiplicanda
       chasm@novagate.com               praeter necessitatem
                                    -William of Occam, d. c.1349

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From: WINBROW@aol.com
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 1995 16:38:51 -0400
Subject: [none]

Van Ness Goetchius and the workbook.  It goes much better in a
full year college course than a one semester seminary course, but all his
examples are from the NT and the exercises in the workbook are based on the
NT adapted to the level of the student at the time.  I found it very helpful
to beginning students.

It is still available from Charles Scribner's Sons in NY.

Carlton Winbery
La College, Pineville, La


From: Akulas@aol.com
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 1995 17:33:52 -0400
Subject: Q. on Metzger and Wikgren 

I have a request:

Some time back someone (I forget who) referred to a disagreement between
Metzger and Wikgren in the matter of textual criticism.  I wonder if someone
might enlighten me on the nature of that disagreement.

I'm not looking for gossip.  I'm doing some writing on the history of engish
versions, and I'm simply wanting information about the contemporary state of
text criticism, especially among translators.  

I had the (naive?) idea that there was a basic agreement on that committee as
to the basic approach to textual variants--that is, that an eclectic approach
should be used, following certain agreed upon rules to determine which
variants are more likely to be secondary.   Was I wrong?

Thanks in advance for responding.

Tim Mize
6802 Willoughby Ct.
Indianapolis, IN 46214


From: Bruce Terry <terry@bible.acu.edu>
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 1995 15:30:37 CST
Subject: Re: NA27 apparatus perplexity 

On Wed, 11 Oct 95, Mark O'Brien wrote re Mark 8:35:

>I think (and I may well be wrong here), but there are basically four
>variants at work here:  
>1.  There are some MSS that have APOLESH as opposed to APOLESEI.
>2.  There are some MSS that have both APOLESH as opposed to 
>APOLESEI and which also read THN EAUTOU VUXHN following this.
>3.  There are some MSS which read AUTHN for AUTOU.
>4.  And then there is the reading as it stands in the text.

If I'm not mistaken the AUTHN is read for THN hEAUTOU VUCHN rather than for
AUTOU.  Also add a fifth variant, the omission of an object in the Latin MS q.

But to date I have failed to see what the _et_ adds that a "|" wouldn't give.

Bruce Terry                            E-MAIL: terry@bible.acu.edu
Box 8426, ACU Station		       Phone:  915/674-3759
Abilene, Texas 79699		       Fax:    915/674-3769


From: Bruce Terry <terry@bible.acu.edu>
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 1995 17:15:16 CST
Subject: Re: Needed:  a source for Hatch and Redpath 

On Wed, 11 Oct 1995, Kenneth Litwak wrote:

>   I wonder if anyone can helkp me with a source for a new or used 
>copy of Hatch-Redpath's LXX concordance.  It's not in my usual catalogs
>(Great Christian Books or CBD), and my school's bookstore doesn't have
>it Iand I shutter to think what full retail would be on such a thing).
>Thanks in advance.

My copy is a 1983 reprint by Baker.  Ask at your school's bookstore if it is
still in print (surely it is; there is nothing else like it).  If it is, it
can be ordered by any bookstore, including CBD, because Baker is a regular
source.  If it is out of print in America, try writing Blackwell's in Oxford,
England.  When the exchange rate is right, you can order books first published
in England cheaper from them anyway, even with the shipping costs added.

Bruce Terry                            E-MAIL: terry@bible.acu.edu
Box 8426, ACU Station		       Phone:  915/674-3759
Abilene, Texas 79699		       Fax:    915/674-3769


From: Charles Misner <chasm@novagate.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 1995 19:03:47 -0400
Subject: Used books - the list, finally 

Sorry about that last post - somehow the attached list of used book sources
did not make it into the posting. Let's try again.

Used Book Sources

	Kregel's			616-459-9444 voice
	525 Eastern SE			616-459-6049 fax
	Grand Rapids, MI 49503

	Baker Book House		616-957-3110 voice
	2768 E Paris Ave SE		616-957-0965 fax
	Grand Rapids, MI 49546
	Ex Libris Theological Books	312-955-3456 voice
	PO Box 810			312-955-4116 fax
	Oak Lawn, IL 60454

There. Please feel free to email me additional sources as you find them.
I will keep adding to the list of sources for Greek, Biblical study, and
Theological used books as sources are located.
       Charlie Misner               Entia non sunt multiplicanda
       chasm@novagate.com               praeter necessitatem
                                    -William of Occam, d. c.1349


From: Kenneth Litwak <kenneth@sybase.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 1995 13:55:28 +0800
Subject: Re: 1Cor. 14:14

Carlton Winbery wrote:

>  The word ecstasy does not mean that a person who has had this experience
> cannot turn it on or off at will, but that the sounds being made are not
> consciously controlled by the normal speech mechanisms so that human speech
> is created.  Kildahl is a psychologists and has done much research in the
> modern phenomena and also ancient documents.  
> If the word "ecstasy" is unacceptable, psychologists often use the word
> "dissociative."  Either way the sounds made are not consciously controlled by
> the speech mechanism in the brain.  there are many kinds of dissociative
> experiences, such as a laugh or hypnotism. In religion, these experiences
> occur because of strong emotional involvement and are good or bad in accord
> with what they produce in the believer and his/her relationships with others
> and God.

    This fairly narrow definition of "ecstasy" suggests
sometihng of a very different character than the Sybilline
oracle making pronouncements while inhaling seemingly mind-
altering vapors influencing state of mind.  Using this 
understanding of ecstasy, I fail to understand what
the ecstatic nature of glossalalia has to do with the
argument that was being made.  It seems to have shifted
from what the text means to the significance of it being
ecstatic.  Your understanding of ecstasy makes the nature
of toungues as ecstatic become virtually irrelevant to 
the argument Paul is making, which is exactly my point.
It doesn't matter whether it is ecstatic or not.  It only
matters within the house church whether it is 
understood by hearers.  I was responding to what I perceived
as an emphasis on its "ecstatic" quality, which however it's
defined, makes little difference for Paul's meaning.  
Either way, the speech is from God, whether prophecy or 
tongues.  Either way, it is God's Spirit speaking though the
individual, without the individual coming up with the words
themselves.  So that is not the contrast that Paul is
making, is it?  

Ken Litwak


From: BibAnsMan@aol.com
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 1995 21:59:13 -0400
Subject: Re: A.T.Robertson & Extra-NT Greek 

In a message dated 95-10-11 07:32:47 EDT, Maurice A. O'Sullivan writes:

>On  Tue, 10 Oct 1995 14:47:28 -0400
>on the subject: Re: A.T.Robertson & Extra-NT Greek 
> BibAnsMan@aol.com wrote:
>>   I merely said that it was not the FIRST line of defense.  <
>Defense against what, or whom?

ANSWER: Have you heard of Jude 3 or  1 Peter 3:15 ??

Jim McGuire


From: BibAnsMan@aol.com
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 1995 22:05:40 -0400
Subject: Re: Used books - the list, finally 

Here's some resources for out of print books and used books that I have....

Archives Bookstore, CA  818/797-4756
Baker's Book House 616/957-3110, 1-800-877-2665
Browsers Bookstore, CA  714/949-0101
Kregal Used Books 616/459-9444
Erdman's 1-800-253-7521
McCoy's Christian Supply
Steels, Davenport
Tyndale 312/668-8300
Zondervan Corp. 1-800-727-1309

Jim McGuire


From: "James D. Ernest" <ernest@mv.mv.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 1995 23:41:30 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Janet Dove

On Wed, 11 Oct 1995, Carl W. Conrad wrote:

> For myself, I have adopted the motto, "Delete with abandon!" I've deleted

Those with more choler, more time to kill, and fax boards will
probably find ways to keep these uncouth merchants' fax machines
- -----------------------------------------------------------------
James D. Ernest                            Joint Doctoral Program
Manchester, New Hampshire, USA      Andover-Newton/Boston College
Internet: ernest@mv.mv.com           Chestnut Hill, Massachusetts


From: JClar100@aol.com
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 00:01:21 -0400
Subject: Romans 4:7-8 

Suggested translation:

7)  Blessed (happy) are those whose lawless deeds were forgiven and whose
sins were covered over.

8)  Blessed is the man whose sin the lord himself might not place to one's

NOTE:  I have AFEThHSAN as aorist passive indicative.

COMMENT:  Ernest Campbell, Romans, vol 1, p.132, indicates that the passive
voice here makes it clear that a group of people "did nothing" to obtain the
state of blessedness.  I am still never sure how to translate that word

I do not understand why the passive voice would necessarily indicate they
"did nothing." I realize the passive voice would normally indicate that the
subject is acted upon.  However, does this fact always render the subjective
inactive?  If I say, "I was cured by the doctor," could not that also assume
that I took the medicine prescribed by the doctor?  Then, would there not be
some sense in which I "did something" to bring about my healing? 

  DIKAIOSUNHN.  But isn't EPISTEUSEN "doing something?"  Here the verb is
"active."  I understand the active voice to mean the subject is acting rather
than being acted upon.  Why not the passive voice in some form here if faith
or belief is something which must always be considered a gift from God? 


NOTE:  I understand vv. 7-8 to be quotes from the LXX though I have not
checked to see if they have been paraphrased.  Campbell also makes the
somewhat interesting statement that exact quoting for Paul is not so
important as is the conveying of the meaning of the quote. He seems to feel
that even the exact meaning may not be so important at times  as is the
"(Spirit's) use of the OT passage to make Paul's point."  But that's for
another time!!!   

James Clardy


From: Prandy@aol.com
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 00:02:45 -0400
Subject: Re: Husband of One Wife 

Hi, all!

I have been "a reader only" for about four months and have absolutely enjoyed
the discussions...although I took Greek a zillion years ago, Paul taught it
to me in the prison at Rome in the afternoons!

Seriously, I am a Pastor in Birmingham, AL, (3 years) and originally came
from KC.  A few years ago I began to refresh my Greek and today I use
Hermeneutica's Bible Works for Windows (Praise God for computers!).

I realize that this question has a lot of theological (or ecclesiastical)
ramifications, however I am only interested in the insight gained from the
text.  So, here's my question.  Can we tell from the Greek usage of the word
"one" (hen) in 1 Ti 3:12 if Paul is referring only to polygamy?  What insight
can you give me?  Many thanks...keep up the good work.

In Christ,  Randy <><


End of b-greek-digest V1 #905


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