Search found 127 matches

by Iver Larsen
June 14th, 2013, 3:56 am
Forum: Pragmatics and Discourse
Topic: Word Order of Genitive (Enclitic) Pronouns
Replies: 72
Views: 19984

Re: Word Order of Genitive (Enclitic) Pronouns

Maybe I need to ask the question in a different forum? For this exercise I am not interested in the difference between word stress and pitch accent. English is a stress language, but stress is not marked in the writing system, so I tried to put italics on the words that I would expect to be stresse...
by Iver Larsen
June 13th, 2013, 1:44 pm
Forum: Pragmatics and Discourse
Topic: Word Order of Genitive (Enclitic) Pronouns
Replies: 72
Views: 19984

Re: Word Order of Genitive (Enclitic) Pronouns

I could ask a similar question: What is the difference in English between: "If you had been here , my brother would not have died " (No stress on my and natural stress on brother. I have indicated with italics where I expect the stressed words are in English) and "If you had been her...
by Iver Larsen
June 13th, 2013, 10:27 am
Forum: Pragmatics and Discourse
Topic: Word Order of Genitive (Enclitic) Pronouns
Replies: 72
Views: 19984

Re: Word Order of Genitive (Enclitic) Pronouns

... I could ask a similar question: What is the difference in English between: "If you had been here , my brother would not have died " (No stress on my and natural stress on brother. I have indicated with italics where I expect the stressed words are in English) and "If you had been...
by Iver Larsen
June 13th, 2013, 3:34 am
Forum: Pragmatics and Discourse
Topic: Word Order of Genitive (Enclitic) Pronouns
Replies: 72
Views: 19984

Re: Word Order of Genitive (Enclitic) Pronouns

New to forum! Not too advanced but eager to learn. Discovered you by searching for any info on why the word order of mou in John 11:21, 32 differs while most translations render it the same. But the context sure seems to imply that Martha and Mary would not say the identical thing. Thoughts? Is thi...
by Iver Larsen
June 12th, 2013, 2:52 am
Forum: Pragmatics and Discourse
Topic: Word Order of Genitive (Enclitic) Pronouns
Replies: 72
Views: 19984

Re: Word Order of Genitive (Enclitic) Pronouns

... for example, in Mt 17.15 'have mercy on my son', the "son" can be read as more salient. Certainly the continuing statement focuses on the son. To inject "my" into the story as marked prominence seems to be a distraction. (Is the father concerned for himself or for his son? T...
by Iver Larsen
June 10th, 2013, 5:00 am
Forum: Pragmatics and Discourse
Topic: Word Order of Genitive (Enclitic) Pronouns
Replies: 72
Views: 19984

Re: Word Order of Genitive (Enclitic) Pronouns

I'd like to comment on the following: On that front: here's some data that was instrumental for my change in perspective away from an approach similar to Iver's toward the one I have now. The relative prominence approach depends centrally upon there being a contrastive alternative for the pronoun (I...
by Iver Larsen
June 7th, 2013, 3:00 am
Forum: Pragmatics and Discourse
Topic: Word Order of Genitive (Enclitic) Pronouns
Replies: 72
Views: 19984

Re: Word Order of Genitive (Enclitic) Pronouns

My model of language has room for "demotion" for highly topicalized, non-salient pieces of information. Different languages move these near to the verb. One can distinguish four levels of saliency: marked clause-level saliency [Focus], marked relevance to larger context though not-most-sa...
by Iver Larsen
June 6th, 2013, 2:43 am
Forum: Pragmatics and Discourse
Topic: Word Order of Genitive (Enclitic) Pronouns
Replies: 72
Views: 19984

Re: Word Order of Genitive (Enclitic) Pronouns

Well, you can do a little test to see what is more important. a. a wise man is one who builds his house ... and the storm does not hurt it but a foolish man builds his house ... and the storm destroys it. or b. a wise man builds on bedrock ... and the storm does not hurt it but a foolish man builds...
by Iver Larsen
June 5th, 2013, 5:15 pm
Forum: Pragmatics and Discourse
Topic: Word Order of Genitive (Enclitic) Pronouns
Replies: 72
Views: 19984

Re: Word Order of Genitive (Enclitic) Pronouns

... Thank you for the clarification about Hebrew. So, we have a Greek construction here that is not a reflection of Hebrew word order. ... I prefer to avoid using the terms Focus and Contextualisation. I gave two references, but I should have quoted both for the contrast to be seen more clearly. I ...
by Iver Larsen
June 5th, 2013, 6:11 am
Forum: Pragmatics and Discourse
Topic: Word Order of Genitive (Enclitic) Pronouns
Replies: 72
Views: 19984

Re: Word Order of Genitive (Enclitic) Pronouns

While I still think the placement of the genitive pronoun in a noun phrase needs further study, I would like to leave aside the enclitic ones and look at examples with a fronted AUTOU ... ... Mat 7:24,26 ὅστις ᾠκοδόμησεν αὐτοῦ τὴν οἰκίαν ἐπὶ τὴν πέτραν While we can be pretty sure that this started ...

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