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by Scott Lawson
August 1st, 2021, 9:22 pm
Forum: New Testament
Topic: John 8:58
Replies: 209
Views: 36795

Re: John 8:58

Stephen in one of my earlier posts I mentioned that γινομαι takes up the slack for the lack of the aorist and perfect forms of ειμι. I mentioned that γινομαι has a semantic force of a change of state which the inceptive Aktionsart of an aorist form of ειμι might have been able to convey. The use of ...
by Scott Lawson
August 1st, 2021, 8:31 pm
Forum: New Testament
Topic: John 8:58
Replies: 209
Views: 36795

Re: John 8:58

Stephen if my hypothesis is correct that if a verb doesn’t have a perfect form then the default is to the present tense form then grammar would resolve it…or would this practice be an example of exploiting language?
by Scott Lawson
August 1st, 2021, 8:02 pm
Forum: New Testament
Topic: John 8:58
Replies: 209
Views: 36795

Re: John 8:58

Daniel can you do a search for επιστηκα on Accordance? And perhaps Jonathan Robie can do one on Perseus. I can’t seem to figure out how…maybe it’s because I use my iPhone exclusively.
by Scott Lawson
August 1st, 2021, 7:44 pm
Forum: New Testament
Topic: John 8:58
Replies: 209
Views: 36795

Re: John 8:58

Daniel! That is a great find! It looks to me like the perfect is the preferred tense. We see ἡγίακά used in the second line but with ἐπίσταμαί the perfect might mean stand upon and obviously wouldn’t work. See the conjugations under the entry ιστημι in BDAG below/ Πρὸ τοῦ με πλάσαι σε ἐν κοιλίᾳ ἐπίσ...
by Scott Lawson
August 1st, 2021, 6:57 pm
Forum: New Testament
Topic: John 8:58
Replies: 209
Views: 36795

Re: John 8:58

Eeli it was recognized that it was bad form to use a past tense when referring to the Eternal or to the gods. See BDAG under the entry ειμι: 1….Of Christ πρὶν Ἀβραὰμ γενέσθαι, ἐγὼ εἰμί before Abraham was born, I am 8:58 (on the pres. εἰμί cp. Parmenides 8, 5: of the Eternal we cannot say ἦν οὐδ̓ ἔστ...
by Scott Lawson
August 1st, 2021, 6:43 pm
Forum: New Testament
Topic: John 8:58
Replies: 209
Views: 36795

Re: John 8:58

Jonathan you offered these examples and I’ll comment on just the first few. At John 13:19 λεγω is the controlling verb for γένεται and so γένεται has a present tense sense. At Matt 24:6 δει is the controlling verb and γενεσθαι is the complementary infinitive and gets its relative time from the prese...
by Scott Lawson
August 1st, 2021, 6:15 pm
Forum: New Testament
Topic: John 8:58
Replies: 209
Views: 36795

Re: John 8:58

Eeli I was using ειναι for John 17:5 and ειμι for 8:58. Both ειναι and ειμι are forced choices because of the lack of a perfect. Also ημην isn’t an option because it would signal a past event without continuing results and since the be verb is stative it would signal a cessation of existence. And I ...
by Scott Lawson
August 1st, 2021, 4:15 pm
Forum: New Testament
Topic: John 8:58
Replies: 209
Views: 36795

Re: John 8:58

Also because the to be verb ειμι does not have a full paradigm, there is no aorist or perfect verb forms, as a result γίνομαι takes up the slack for certain senses. For example γίνομαι has a change of state meaning as well as the idea of inception/ingression which could have possibly been expressed ...
by Scott Lawson
August 1st, 2021, 3:55 pm
Forum: New Testament
Topic: John 8:58
Replies: 209
Views: 36795

Re: John 8:58

I can’t concede that Jesus didn’t lose the glory he had at the time before the world was. And again I think εἶναι is a forced choice because there isn’t a full paradigm of forms to choose from. And there is a circularity between the temporal preposition and the main verb. I don’t think you can say o...
by Scott Lawson
August 1st, 2021, 12:38 pm
Forum: New Testament
Topic: John 8:58
Replies: 209
Views: 36795

Re: John 8:58

I’m sorry I think I misidentified the controlling verb which is εἶχον (imp. act. ind.). That would give the present infinitive εἶναι in the temporal clause its time.

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