φανεροω in Eph 5:13

Biblical Greek morphology and syntax, aspect, linguistics, discourse analysis, and related topics
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davidmcy2
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Joined: July 31st, 2019, 5:44 pm

φανεροω in Eph 5:13

Post by davidmcy2 » December 29th, 2019, 7:26 pm

Hello everyone!

First, I copied this text of Eph. 5:13 from a web page:

τὰ δὲ πάντα ἐλεγχόμενα ὑπὸ τοῦ φωτὸς φανεροῦται, πᾶν γὰρ τὸ φανερούμενον φῶς ἐστιν.

Then I used a Greek font on my phone to do this:

τὰ δὲ πάντα ἐλεγχόμενα ὑπὸ τοῦ φωτὸς φανεροῦται, πᾶν γὰρ τὸ φανερούμενον φῶς ἐστιν.

Would someone please tell me which, if either, of these are showing up as the proper Greek text on your end?



Second, my actual Greek question, concerning the last few words of this verse. It seems easier to understand an expression like, "whatever MAKES visible is light" than to understand "whatever BECOMES visible is light".

If φανερούμενον is nominative passive, then it seems that "whatever BECOMES visible is light" would be unavoidably correct.

If it is nominative middle (deponent), then perhaps "whatever MAKES visible is light" could be correct. The BAG lexicon has no entries for the middle voice under this word, but I don't know if that closes the case or not.

Alternatively, if the participle is accusative, then couldn't we have an accusative of respect, and translate it something like, "with respect to what is made manifest there is light", or, more fluidly, "whenever something is made manifest, there must be light"?



Thanks!
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Barry Hofstetter
Posts: 1816
Joined: May 6th, 2011, 1:48 pm

Re: φανεροω in Eph 5:13

Post by Barry Hofstetter » December 30th, 2019, 1:21 pm

davidmcy2 wrote:
December 29th, 2019, 7:26 pm
Hello everyone!

First, I copied this text of Eph. 5:13 from a web page:

τὰ δὲ πάντα ἐλεγχόμενα ὑπὸ τοῦ φωτὸς φανεροῦται, πᾶν γὰρ τὸ φανερούμενον φῶς ἐστιν.

Then I used a Greek font on my phone to do this:

τὰ δὲ πάντα ἐλεγχόμενα ὑπὸ τοῦ φωτὸς φανεροῦται, πᾶν γὰρ τὸ φανερούμενον φῶς ἐστιν.

Would someone please tell me which, if either, of these are showing up as the proper Greek text on your end?
Both look perfectly and properly Greek...
davidmcy2 wrote:Second, my actual Greek question, concerning the last few words of this verse. It seems easier to understand an expression like, "whatever MAKES visible is light" than to understand "whatever BECOMES visible is light".

If φανερούμενον is nominative passive, then it seems that "whatever BECOMES visible is light" would be unavoidably correct.

If it is nominative middle (deponent), then perhaps "whatever MAKES visible is light" could be correct. The BAG lexicon has no entries for the middle voice under this word, but I don't know if that closes the case or not.
Look at the context:


13 τὰ δὲ πάντα ἐλεγχόμενα ὑπὸ τοῦ φωτὸς φανεροῦται, τὸ φανερούμενον, 14 πᾶν γὰρ τὸ φανερούμενον φῶς ἐστιν. διὸ λέγει,
Ἔγειρε, ὁ καθεύδων,
καὶ ἀνάστα ἐκ τῶν νεκρῶν,
καὶ ἐπιφαύσει σοι ὁ Χριστός

Let me suggest that τὸ φανερούμενον is parallel in sense to φανεροῦται. True middles in Koine are not common, and the passive makes good sense here.
davidmcy2 wrote:Alternatively, if the participle is accusative, then couldn't we have an accusative of respect, and translate it something like, "with respect to what is made manifest there is light", or, more fluidly, "whenever something is made manifest, there must be light"?
No. Accusative of respect is also rare and extremely unlikely without clear context to indicate the usage. And under no circumstances can ἐστιν be read as "must."
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N.E. Barry Hofstetter
Instructor of Latin
Jack M. Barrack Hebrew Academy
καὶ σὺ τὸ σὸν ποιήσεις κἀγὼ τὸ ἐμόν. ἆρον τὸ σὸν καὶ ὕπαγε.

Daniel Semler
Posts: 175
Joined: February 18th, 2019, 7:45 pm

Re: φανεροω in Eph 5:13

Post by Daniel Semler » December 30th, 2019, 1:23 pm

davidmcy2 wrote:
December 29th, 2019, 7:26 pm
Hello everyone!

First, I copied this text of Eph. 5:13 from a web page:

τὰ δὲ πάντα ἐλεγχόμενα ὑπὸ τοῦ φωτὸς φανεροῦται, πᾶν γὰρ τὸ φανερούμενον φῶς ἐστιν.

Then I used a Greek font on my phone to do this:

τὰ δὲ πάντα ἐλεγχόμενα ὑπὸ τοῦ φωτὸς φανεροῦται, πᾶν γὰρ τὸ φανερούμενον φῶς ἐστιν.

Would someone please tell me which, if either, of these are showing up as the proper Greek text on your end?

Thanks!
Both look fine to me.

Thx
D
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Eeli Kaikkonen
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Location: Finland
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Re: φανεροω in Eph 5:13

Post by Eeli Kaikkonen » December 31st, 2019, 3:53 pm

If φανερούμενον is nominative passive, then it seems that "whatever BECOMES visible is light" would be unavoidably correct.

If it is nominative middle (deponent), then perhaps "whatever MAKES visible is light" could be correct.
I'm not 100% I understood you correctly. But I believe what you think is caused by wrong assumptions about the Greek voice.

You may have learned the old definition for "deponent": a formally middle-only verb with active meaning. But even with this definition your second possibility would be wrong: as you say yourself, it's active in lexicons. Therefore it can't be "deponent" by any definition.

Even when the term "deponent" is used correctly when talking about Greek, it's only about the form (i.e. a middle deponent appears only in the middle form in the language, not in active form), not semantics (i.e. it doesn't say anything about "activeness").
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MAubrey
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Location: Washington
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Re: φανεροω in Eph 5:13

Post by MAubrey » December 31st, 2019, 6:39 pm

davidmcy2 wrote:
December 29th, 2019, 7:26 pm
Second, my actual Greek question, concerning the last few words of this verse. It seems easier to understand an expression like, "whatever MAKES visible is light" than to understand "whatever BECOMES visible is light".

If φανερούμενον is nominative passive, then it seems that "whatever BECOMES visible is light" would be unavoidably correct.

If it is nominative middle (deponent), then perhaps "whatever MAKES visible is light" could be correct. The BAG lexicon has no entries for the middle voice under this word, but I don't know if that closes the case or not.
There are no instances of middle-passive forms where a so-called "deponent" also takes on the causative semantics of the active.
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Mike Aubrey, Linguist
Koine-Greek.com

Peng Huiguo
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Joined: April 28th, 2019, 2:02 am

Re: φανεροω in Eph 5:13

Post by Peng Huiguo » January 1st, 2020, 5:02 am

Eph 5:8-15 is reflexive, and imma venture to suggest "enlightened" for φανερούμενον,

Off-topic: So that's where the phrase "rise and shine" probably came from. I'm also intrigued by some parallel with an old chinese phrase to describe an upright man 光明磊落 (like light, like landing rocks, evoking a burst of light blasting a hole from the ground).
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