Is Ὀργίζεσθε in Eph. 4:26 a concesion or command?

Stephen Carlson
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Re: Is Ὀργίζεσθε in Eph. 4:26 a concesion or command?

Post by Stephen Carlson »

That's a nice paper that lays out several options, but I have to admit that I am confused by the notion of a conditional imperative.
Stephen C. Carlson, Ph.D.
Melbourne, Australia
Stephen Hughes
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Re: Is Ὀργίζεσθε in Eph. 4:26 a concession or command?

Post by Stephen Hughes »

Eeli Kaikkonen wrote:
Stephen Hughes wrote:
Mark Cain wrote:the typical explanation of this passage given at every marriage enrichment weekend -- "Don't go to bed angry."
Have people seen this as a passage about marriage?
Not directly of course, but we also know that the famous "love is..." passage is often repeated in weddings. The general thrust of the passage (or some word) is easily interpreted in light of a more specific application. Something to be aware of when passages are quoted out of context.
Okay, I see. I've never been to one of those weekends, and I've never preached a sermon putting passages together out of context.

I'm sorry for cutting across back there and "answering" Mark's question for Wes. Looking at my answer now now, it seems so wierd.
Γελᾷ δ' ὁ μωρός, κἄν τι μὴ γέλοιον ᾖ
(Menander, Γνῶμαι μονόστιχοι 108)
Wes Wood
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Re: Is Ὀργίζεσθε in Eph. 4:26 a concesion or command?

Post by Wes Wood »

Stephen, have any of those resources approached this phrase from the Greek in the greater context of Ephesians, or are you referring primarily to grammars and the like? I don't believe I have read anything in the former category.
Ἀσπάζομαι μὲν καὶ φιλῶ, πείσομαι δὲ μᾶλλον τῷ θεῷ ἢ ὑμῖν.-Ἀπολογία Σωκράτους 29δ
Stephen Hughes
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RJ Decker's article on the two verbs.

Post by Stephen Hughes »

Stephen Carlson wrote:
That's a nice paper that lays out several options, but I have to admit that I am confused by the notion of a conditional imperative.
I'm not quite sure how to take Decker's paper?

It seems to list all the possible things that those verbal forms could be taken as on their own, and then to evaluate which ones would be possible or likely. It doesn't seem that Decker is saying that his is thinking of all of these when he is reading along. It is both exhaustive and simplistic at the same time. What is this sort of style of writing that he is doing?

If the first verb was an participle then talk about if it was conditional would be more appropriate, I think. Also, a discussion about what would happen if the second verb was infinitive, might be useful in defining what it does not say..
Γελᾷ δ' ὁ μωρός, κἄν τι μὴ γέλοιον ᾖ
(Menander, Γνῶμαι μονόστιχοι 108)
Stephen Hughes
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Joined: February 26th, 2013, 7:12 am

Re: Is Ὀργίζεσθε in Eph. 4:26 a concesion or command?

Post by Stephen Hughes »

Wes Wood wrote:Stephen, have any of those resources approached this phrase from the Greek in the greater context of Ephesians, or are you referring primarily to grammars and the like? I don't believe I have read anything in the former category.
Decker's article does that to some small degree.
Γελᾷ δ' ὁ μωρός, κἄν τι μὴ γέλοιον ᾖ
(Menander, Γνῶμαι μονόστιχοι 108)
RandallButh
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Re: Is Ὀργίζεσθε in Eph. 4:26 a concesion or command?

Post by RandallButh »

The confusion seems to come from people treating "grammar" as syntax, and then mixing in pragmatics as if it created extra syntactial categories that are ontologically real.

As an illustration, some of the confusion may come when providing three different labels of "special imperative," Decker's #4-#6, conditional, concessive, permissive. [Decker himself dismisses these as essentially the same: "Numbers 4, 5, and 6 are essentially the same view (despite apparent differences in
English)"]

I'm a "lumper" on the lumper/splitter dichotomy. I'd rather talk about imperatives, and then talk about special ways to use them and what extenuating circumstances are implied. More particularly, I like to interpret by contrasting options: not the options of different English labels, but the different options in Greek, e.g., writing ὀργίζοντες μὴ ἁμαρτάνετε.
What would one choice mean over the other?

The paper was good for leading one to consider a group interpretation, church discipline. Personally, I read the context and some of the plurals as having individual application. But 'be angry' as an imperative probably needs a good negative implied object, since the imperative doesn't signal the inherent flexibility of a participle. "be angry [with evil]."
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