ἔξω βαλεῖν v. ἐκβαλεῖν v. ἐκβαλεῖν ἔξω

Stephen Hughes
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ἔξω βαλεῖν is still an unresolved issue here

Post by Stephen Hughes »

Whatever might be concluded about the other combinations, ἔξω βαλεῖν is seemingly beyond the limits of maps when it involves an action of coming from within.
Γελᾷ δ' ὁ μωρός, κἄν τι μὴ γέλοιον ᾖ
(Menander, Γνῶμαι μονόστιχοι 108)
Stephen Carlson
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Re: ἔξω βαλεῖν v. ἐκβαλεῖν v. ἐκβαλεῖν ἔξω

Post by Stephen Carlson »

Stephen Hughes wrote:
Stephen Carlson wrote:The result state is being outside.
That idea breaks down in non-literal cases like these:
νῦν ὁ ἄρχων τοῦ κόσμου τούτου ἐκβληθήσεται ἔξω
Now the prince of this world will be cast out.
I didn't mean outside in a physical sense, just in a vague sense. Of course, what sense of being "outside" is context dependent.
Stephen C. Carlson, Ph.D.
Melbourne, Australia
Stephen Hughes
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Joined: February 26th, 2013, 7:12 am

Re: ἔξω βαλεῖν v. ἐκβαλεῖν v. ἐκβαλεῖν ἔξω

Post by Stephen Hughes »

Stephen Carlson wrote:
Stephen Hughes wrote:
Stephen Carlson wrote:The result state is being outside.
That idea breaks down in non-literal cases like these:
νῦν ὁ ἄρχων τοῦ κόσμου τούτου ἐκβληθήσεται ἔξω
Now the prince of this world will be cast out.
I didn't mean outside in a physical sense, just in a vague sense. Of course, what sense of being "outside" is context dependent.
I have been unable to find only that vague sense (without the attendant concrete sense) for this (fuller) ἐκβαλεῖν ἔξω construction in the wider literature.

That is basically why I've brought it up for continuing discussion. If the vague sense is there, it is implied, but only as a result of the physical expulsion. Following the passage from Euripides that I quoted[quote="Euripides (5th century BCE - Tragedian (Dramatist)), Medea 274-276""]ὡς ἐγὼ βραβεὺς λόγου
275τοῦδ᾽ εἰμί, κοὐκ ἄπειμι πρὸς δόμους πάλιν
πρὶν ἄν σε γαίας τερμόνων ἔξω βάλω.
I am the executor of this decree, [275] and I will not return home again until I expel you from this land.[/quote]is her reply:
[i]ib.[/i] 277-279 wrote:αἰαῖ: πανώλης ἡ τάλαιν᾽ ἀπόλλυμαι:
ἐχθροὶ γὰρ ἐξιᾶσι πάντα δὴ κάλων,
κοὐκ ἔστιν ἄτης εὐπρόσοιστος ἔκβασις.
Oh, I am undone, wholly lost! My enemies are making full sail against me, and there is no haven from disaster that I can reach.
This is a reaction to the physical expulsion, but I can't find a wholly abstracted shunning / unwelcomeness referred to with this construction. I have ideas why I can't find it - foremost my own ineptitude - but speculating at this stage would probably just increase the amount of egg on my face later.

It seems to my limited competency that this uniquely NT ("you don't belong here") feature (rather than literally moving someone physically outside boarders, etc.) in this (fuller) ἐκβαλεῖν ἔξω construction is a possible starting point to understanding the βαλεῖν ἔξω construction (with ἔξω used as adverb not an improper preposition, and possibly when it is).
Γελᾷ δ' ὁ μωρός, κἄν τι μὴ γέλοιον ᾖ
(Menander, Γνῶμαι μονόστιχοι 108)
Stephen Hughes
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Joined: February 26th, 2013, 7:12 am

ἐκ + ὠθεῖν = ἐξωθεῖν "to drive out", "to run aground"

Post by Stephen Hughes »

At first I thought ἐξωθεῖν "to expel", "to run aground" might be a key, but later I discovered it came from ἐκ + ὠθεῖν [LXX] "to push", "to drive", not from ἔξωθεν "from outside".
Γελᾷ δ' ὁ μωρός, κἄν τι μὴ γέλοιον ᾖ
(Menander, Γνῶμαι μονόστιχοι 108)
Stephen Carlson
Posts: 3351
Joined: May 11th, 2011, 10:51 am
Location: Melbourne
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Re: ἔξω βαλεῖν v. ἐκβαλεῖν v. ἐκβαλεῖν ἔξω

Post by Stephen Carlson »

Stephen Hughes wrote:
Stephen Carlson wrote:I didn't mean outside in a physical sense, just in a vague sense. Of course, what sense of being "outside" is context dependent.
I have been unable to find only that vague sense (without the attendant concrete sense) for this (fuller) ἐκβαλεῖν ἔξω construction in the wider literature.
Without a context, the sense of ἔξω as outside is vague; with a context, it may not be. There is a difference between sense and reference. I'm talking about its sense and you're talking about its references (or so I think that's what you're talking about--I am frankly having a hard time following all the twists and turns in what you're claiming).
Stephen C. Carlson, Ph.D.
Melbourne, Australia
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