Aorist participle with aorist main verb of movement – antecedent or simultaneous?

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MarkusFrid
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Aorist participle with aorist main verb of movement – antecedent or simultaneous?

Post by MarkusFrid » February 25th, 2020, 9:24 am

I wonder if there's a significance in the fact that the aorist participles in Heb 1:3 "having made" and 6:20 "having become" relate to verbs of movement "purified" and "entered" respectively. Do these instances denote antecendent or simultaneous events?

Dan B. Wallace says concerning this: "The aorist participle is normally, though by no means always, antecedent in time to the action of the main verb. But when the aorist participle is related to an aorist main verb, the participle will often be contemporaneous (or simultaneous) to the action of the main verb." (Wallace, Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics, 624)
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Stirling Bartholomew
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Re: Aorist participle with aorist main verb of movement – antecedent or simultaneous?

Post by Stirling Bartholomew » February 25th, 2020, 10:49 am

MarkusFrid wrote:
February 25th, 2020, 9:24 am
I wonder if there's a significance in the fact that the aorist participles in Heb 1:3 "having made" and 6:20 "having become" relate to verbs of movement "purified" and "entered" respectively. Do these instances denote antecendent or simultaneous events?

Dan B. Wallace says concerning this: "The aorist participle is normally, though by no means always, antecedent in time to the action of the main verb. But when the aorist participle is related to an aorist main verb, the participle will often be contemporaneous (or simultaneous) to the action of the main verb." (Wallace, Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics, 624)
Heb. 1:3 ὃς ὢν ἀπαύγασμα τῆς δόξης καὶ χαρακτὴρ τῆς ὑποστάσεως αὐτοῦ, φέρων τε τὰ πάντα τῷ ῥήματι τῆς δυνάμεως αὐτοῦ, καθαρισμὸν τῶν ἁμαρτιῶν ποιησάμενος ἐκάθισεν ἐν δεξιᾷ τῆς μεγαλωσύνης ἐν ὑψηλοῖς,

Heb. 6:20 ὅπου πρόδρομος ὑπὲρ ἡμῶν εἰσῆλθεν Ἰησοῦς, κατὰ τὴν τάξιν Μελχισέδεκ ἀρχιερεὺς γενόμενος εἰς τὸν αἰῶνα.

Perhaps we should consider the order in which participle constituents appear relative to the main verb. This is a discourse issue. I would read καθαρισμὸν τῶν ἁμαρτιῶν ποιησάμενος as a setting for ἐκάθισεν. The second example has the participle clause after the main verb. Some disagreement among the English Translations on this one.

Heb. 6:20 (NRSV) where Jesus, a forerunner on our behalf, has entered, having become a high priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek.

ESV Hebrews 6:20
where Jesus has gone e as a forerunner on our behalf having become a high priest forever after the order of Melchizedek

NASB Heb. 6:20 where Jesus has entered as a forerunner for us, having become a high priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek.

NIV Heb. 6:20 where Jesus, who went before us, has entered on our behalf. He has become a high priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek.

TEV Heb. 6:20 On our behalf Jesus has gone in there before us and has become a high priest forever, in the priestly order of Melchizedek.
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C. Stirling Bartholomew

Barry Hofstetter
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Re: Aorist participle with aorist main verb of movement – antecedent or simultaneous?

Post by Barry Hofstetter » February 25th, 2020, 12:32 pm

MarkusFrid wrote:
February 25th, 2020, 9:24 am
I wonder if there's a significance in the fact that the aorist participles in Heb 1:3 "having made" and 6:20 "having become" relate to verbs of movement "purified" and "entered" respectively. Do these instances denote antecendent or simultaneous events?

Dan B. Wallace says concerning this: "The aorist participle is normally, though by no means always, antecedent in time to the action of the main verb. But when the aorist participle is related to an aorist main verb, the participle will often be contemporaneous (or simultaneous) to the action of the main verb." (Wallace, Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics, 624)
Heb. 1:3 ὃς ὢν ἀπαύγασμα τῆς δόξης καὶ χαρακτὴρ τῆς ὑποστάσεως αὐτοῦ, φέρων τε τὰ πάντα τῷ ῥήματι τῆς δυνάμεως αὐτοῦ, καθαρισμὸν τῶν ἁμαρτιῶν ποιησάμενος ἐκάθισεν ἐν δεξιᾷ τῆς μεγαλωσύνης ἐν ὑψηλοῖς,

Heb. 6:20 ὅπου πρόδρομος ὑπὲρ ἡμῶν εἰσῆλθεν Ἰησοῦς, κατὰ τὴν τάξιν Μελχισέδεκ ἀρχιερεὺς γενόμενος εἰς τὸν αἰῶνα.

Logic and context. Which did Jesus do first? Did he make purification for sins and then sit at the right hand of God, or are the two actions simultaneous? The same with 6:20. When does Jesus enter the inner sanctuary, and when was he appointed a priest after the order of Melchizedek? That one might be a bit trickier, actually... :D
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N.E. Barry Hofstetter
Instructor of Latin
Jack M. Barrack Hebrew Academy
καὶ σὺ τὸ σὸν ποιήσεις κἀγὼ τὸ ἐμόν. ἆρον τὸ σὸν καὶ ὕπαγε.

MarkusFrid
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Re: Aorist participle with aorist main verb of movement – antecedent or simultaneous?

Post by MarkusFrid » March 2nd, 2020, 6:54 am

Stirling Bartholomew wrote:
February 25th, 2020, 10:49 am
Heb. 1:3 ὃς ὢν ἀπαύγασμα τῆς δόξης καὶ χαρακτὴρ τῆς ὑποστάσεως αὐτοῦ, φέρων τε τὰ πάντα τῷ ῥήματι τῆς δυνάμεως αὐτοῦ, καθαρισμὸν τῶν ἁμαρτιῶν ποιησάμενος ἐκάθισεν ἐν δεξιᾷ τῆς μεγαλωσύνης ἐν ὑψηλοῖς,

Heb. 6:20 ὅπου πρόδρομος ὑπὲρ ἡμῶν εἰσῆλθεν Ἰησοῦς, κατὰ τὴν τάξιν Μελχισέδεκ ἀρχιερεὺς γενόμενος εἰς τὸν αἰῶνα.

Perhaps we should consider the order in which participle constituents appear relative to the main verb. This is a discourse issue. I would read καθαρισμὸν τῶν ἁμαρτιῶν ποιησάμενος as a setting for ἐκάθισεν. The second example has the participle clause after the main verb. Some disagreement among the English Translations on this one.
Yes, I realize that the order has do to with discourse. Many commentators note in Heb 6:20 that the participle follows after the main verb preparing for what the author has to say on the office of high priest in Heb 7:1ff. Let me take another example outside Hebrews: In Matt 26:30 we have the "normal" word order, καὶ ὑμνήσαντες ἐξῆλθον εἰς τὸ ὄρος τῶν ἐλαιῶν. Here it is rather clear that the aorist participle reflecting that Jesus and the disciples sang a hymn concluded the passover meal and that it preceds the main verb (of movement), ἐξῆλθον. Again, I wonder if there is a pattern when aorist participles are combined with aorist main verbs of movement, a pattern different perhaps in comparison with other verbs.
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