Nuance in the passive voice

Semantic Range, Lexicography, and other approaches to word meaning - in general, or for particular words.
Eeli Kaikkonen
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Re: Nuance in the passive voice

Post by Eeli Kaikkonen »

Alex Hopkins wrote:I continue to wonder if there are studies where the hiding of the agent in Greek is discussed, so that Joan might set this text against a broader context?
Googling "divine passive" and "hiding the agent" give some hits for the English language. They both describe something like clever obfuscation of the real agent. It's done because there's something to hide (like in "mistakes were made") or because it sounds more authoritative. That's not usually the case in the Bible, and usage of mediopassive is different from English, anyways. The term "divine passive" is used differently in theology.

Therefore the first task here is to make clear what a writer means with the term "hiding the agent". Maybe Joan can help here, if she has the original text at hand.
Eeli Kaikkonen
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Re: Nuance in the passive voice

Post by Eeli Kaikkonen »

Eeli Kaikkonen wrote: Therefore the first task here is to make clear what a writer means with the term "hiding the agent". Maybe Joan can help here, if she has the original text at hand.
I just realized I don't even know who's talking about hiding the agent, Joan or Payne. I just assumed it was Payne based on Joan's question and M. Lightman's answer. So, my posts may have been misleading. But otherwise I still stand behind what I wrote and may give more opinions even when not requested :)
Joan Holmes
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Joined: November 18th, 2011, 11:17 pm

Re: Nuance in the passive voice

Post by Joan Holmes »

I am thoroughly enjoying and learning from all your posts. I am typing with one arm in a sling, with one finger only for the next few weeks, and unable to reply to you all individually, but I do want to make a few things clear. Eeli: Payne makes no claim about Acts 26:1 except to use it in a non-aspectual reaction to D Moo's argument that 1 Tim 2:12 is a universal permission. See further below. Mark: I think it highly unlikely that I will be able to immortalise your clever 'cryptopoiesis'. :) Alex: I will follow up your refs, but that 'other' book I in fact only co-wrote, and it never found that apparently mythical creature, an agent, so cannot be submitted to a publisher and doesn't count as a 'second'. :oops: Carl, I particularly appreciate your
is ἐπιτρέπεται with dative here being used as a passive at all or is it impersonal in the same way that ἑξεστι + dative is impersonal with the sense, “it is possible” or “it is permissible”?
Most importantly, Eeli, Mark, Alex and Carl: Payne believes that epitrepw (esp. in 1st pers. sing. pres. ind. act.) is unsuited to identify a 'universal permission'. I want to say that verbs (whatever voice) may not be rigidly restricted to a 'majority' usage but must be interpreted by their individual contexts. I had heard that passives, e.g., may 'hide' an agent, and could see that that had various possibilities at Acts 26:1. In light of this discussion I am happy to bin that particular idea. Any further discussion on nuance would, however, be most welcome.
Eeli Kaikkonen
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Re: Nuance in the passive voice

Post by Eeli Kaikkonen »

Joan Holmes wrote:Payne believes that epitrepw (esp. in 1st pers. sing. pres. ind. act.) is unsuited to identify a 'universal permission'. I want to say that verbs (whatever voice) may not be rigidly restricted to a 'majority' usage but must be interpreted by their individual contexts.
Thanks for clarifications. After that I'm not able to say much, except that I think that whether a permission is universal or not depends on the context, not on this specific word. Also voice, negative (OU/MH) etc. may actually limit the semantic possibilities, and Acts 26:1 isn't an exact parallel. 1 Tim 2:12 isn't a permission, after all, it's a prohibition, and in a different voice. I heartily agree with your last sentence in the quotation above. It's easy to find "parallels" which are parallels in one or more ways, but not in some important way, and say that they must be interpreted in the same way. Respecting the context and raising above formal analysis would often help.
Joan Holmes
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Joined: November 18th, 2011, 11:17 pm

Re: Nuance in the passive voice

Post by Joan Holmes »

Thank you Eeli.
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