Any passage with a liquid future (e.g. κρινεῖ vs. κρίνει) is potentially ambiguous without accents. Some names like Junias/Junia differ in certain case forms only by accent. Also, orthotone and enclitic σοῦ, σοί, σέ have different pragmatic effects.Jonathan Robie wrote: ↑November 30th, 2017, 12:34 pm How many passages can we think of that are ambiguous without accents (but not with accents)? Do they fall into a small number of set categories?
Is learning accents really important?
-
- Posts: 3351
- Joined: May 11th, 2011, 10:51 am
- Location: Melbourne
- Contact:
Re: Is learning accents really important?
Stephen C. Carlson, Ph.D.
Melbourne, Australia
Melbourne, Australia
-
- Posts: 3351
- Joined: May 11th, 2011, 10:51 am
- Location: Melbourne
- Contact:
Re: Is learning accents really important?
+1 The part I put in red is why it's important to pay attention to accents.Jonathan Robie wrote: ↑November 30th, 2017, 10:37 am In the beginning, I would probably focus on the accents that distinguish words that are easy to confuse. And always take accents into account when you pronounce the words, don't teach yourself to mispronounce words, that is hard to unlearn later.
Stephen C. Carlson, Ph.D.
Melbourne, Australia
Melbourne, Australia
Re: Is learning accents really important?
Is it possible for a human to read a language without hearing it in their head? Or to understand a language without being able to produce a sentence of their own?Mitch Tulloch wrote: ↑November 30th, 2017, 12:31 pmI'm only interested in reading Koine Greek, not in speaking or writing it
-
- Posts: 59
- Joined: November 4th, 2017, 2:52 pm
- Location: Winnipeg, Canada
- Contact:
Re: Is learning accents really important?
OK but does it really matter if we mispronounce it in our head? Besides, there seems to be some uncertainty how Koine Greek was actually spoken (and perhaps there were regional dialects as well like NY vs SoCal vs MidWest American English).daveburt wrote: ↑November 30th, 2017, 6:22 pmIs it possible for a human to read a language without hearing it in their head? Or to understand a language without being able to produce a sentence of their own?Mitch Tulloch wrote: ↑November 30th, 2017, 12:31 pmI'm only interested in reading Koine Greek, not in speaking or writing it
--Mitch
Cheers,
Mitch Tulloch
Mitch Tulloch
-
- Posts: 4165
- Joined: May 5th, 2011, 5:34 pm
- Location: Durham, NC
- Contact:
Re: Is learning accents really important?
For modern languages, teachers believe it's important to use all four channels: reading, writing, listening, speaking. That's how you solidify language. And I think that's true for ancient languages too. It's just harder to get that exposure.
Exactly how you pronounce it isn't all that important, within reason. But getting the rhythm more or less sensible is. And if you ignore the accents, that's hard to do.
Exactly how you pronounce it isn't all that important, within reason. But getting the rhythm more or less sensible is. And if you ignore the accents, that's hard to do.
ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/
-
- Posts: 1105
- Joined: May 13th, 2011, 4:01 am
Re: Is learning accents really important?
Please review the PDF on Greek Pronunciation at the BLC website. The objections quoted do not have merit. It is irrelevant exactly how o-mega was pronounced, but it is very relevant that o-mikron was pronounced in all the attested Koine dialects (post 100BCE) like o-mega was pronounced.Besides, there seems to be some uncertainty how Koine Greek was actually spoken (and perhaps there were regional dialects as well like NY vs SoCal vs MidWest American English)
A Koine pronunciation will have EI=I, AI=E, O=W, OI=Y. The exact "color" of any of the vowels (the slight distinctions that would show dialectical origin) is irrelevant and can't be known, but those equations just cited are what majority audiences all over the Mediterranean were using when listening to Paul and Luke, ktl.
Re: Is learning accents really important?
My first experience learning Greek was with Ray Summer's 1950 Essentials of NT Greek. He presented the basic rules for accenting nouns and verbs in chapter 2. I believe reducing the mystery surrounding accents from the very outset of learning Greek was a great advantage for me. Unfortunately, the revision of Summer's Essentials not only reduced the amount of infomation on accents, but is peppered with misaccented words in the exercises and text.
Merkle and Plummer's excellent new (2021) Beginning Greek is probably the best beginning Grammar available today, but their light weight introduction to accents leaves much to be desired. I am happy that they included English to Greek translation exercises, but the instruction to not accent the Greek words baffles me. At least, Merkle and Plummer recommend John A. L. Lee's Basics of Greek Accents.
When presented carefully old worthies like Machen, W. H. Davis, Summers, and now Schwandt, learning accents is a pleasurable aid rather than an obstacle to mastering Greek.
Merkle and Plummer's excellent new (2021) Beginning Greek is probably the best beginning Grammar available today, but their light weight introduction to accents leaves much to be desired. I am happy that they included English to Greek translation exercises, but the instruction to not accent the Greek words baffles me. At least, Merkle and Plummer recommend John A. L. Lee's Basics of Greek Accents.
When presented carefully old worthies like Machen, W. H. Davis, Summers, and now Schwandt, learning accents is a pleasurable aid rather than an obstacle to mastering Greek.