Mark Illustrated with Greek

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Shirley Rollinson
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Re: Mark Illustrated with Greek

Post by Shirley Rollinson » November 30th, 2016, 10:27 pm

Do we have anyone in the forum who lives in Greece? - I would expect there to be "children's Bible comics" like some of the English ones available. - i.e. the simplified Bible text illustrated as a comic strip? Or English ones which have been translated into Greek the way the Asterix series has been done.
Granted, they would be modern Greek, but someone could maybe adapt them for koine.
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Jonathan Robie
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Re: Mark Illustrated with Greek

Post by Jonathan Robie » November 30th, 2016, 10:28 pm

Stephen Hughes wrote:Can we give (informed) balanced evaluations? Or do just want positive statements? For some people positive only statement are interpreted as insincere.
I think it's fine to point out specific things that are better / worse about doing it one way versus another.

My concern is this: often, when someone comes in here filled with enthusiasm, they are greeted with harsh criticism. I'd like to have room for more than one way of doing things and more than one point of view. That will make B-Greek stickier for newcomers.
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ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/

fredrick.long
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Re: Mark Illustrated with Greek

Post by fredrick.long » December 1st, 2016, 4:36 pm

Hi all,

Any rendition as composition is interpretive. Agreed, Conrad. Such are performances and these will be preferred by some and not others. Sometimes each has its respective strength. I feel this way with Widor's 5th Symphony--the differences in style is quite amazing--speed, and accentuation. I find that I may like attributes of each organists' interpretation. And they are interpreting.

With these comics, it is also hard not to be anachronistic, and there are probably allowable limits to what is and is not acceptable. So, the comic type that is stereotyped (looking a bit like Steamboat Micky, or Gabby more so) allows more forgiveness of anachronism than would a more realistic looking comic, I think, unless the styling was betraying/signalling intentionally that it was not trying to be "accurate" to the setting, etc.
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Stephen Hughes
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Re: Mark Illustrated with Greek

Post by Stephen Hughes » December 3rd, 2016, 1:06 am

Jonathan Robie wrote:I'd like to have room for more than one way of doing things and more than one point of view.
If you really want a broad range of points of view about representations of the Jonah story, then the first part of what you are illustrating - Καὶ προσέταξε Κύριος τῷ κήτει, - makes sense if it is in a near eastern mythological context - with Jonah a hero who overcomes the forces of chaos, expressed gnerally as the sea, and specifically as a chaos monster, to once again come back to the ordered dry land. Alternatively, taking the city itself as the great sea monster, a depiction of Jonah being released from a prison after 3 days of despair and confinement, may be another way of interpreting this story. The choice between the 5 pictures of a literal sea monster / whale are variations on the same (literal) interpretation. Of course, there wouldn't be a great market for any non-literal interpretation graphical depictions, though.
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Γελᾷ δ' ὁ μωρός, κἄν τι μὴ γέλοιον ᾖ
(Menander, Γνῶμαι μονόστιχοι 108)

Jonathan Robie
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Re: Mark Illustrated with Greek

Post by Jonathan Robie » December 3rd, 2016, 12:43 pm

Stephen Hughes wrote:Of course, there wouldn't be a great market for any non-literal interpretation graphical depictions, though.
I'm not sure what authentic Greek text you would accompany these graphics with, either. Or what they would look like.
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ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/

Jonathan Robie
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Re: Mark Illustrated with Greek

Post by Jonathan Robie » December 3rd, 2016, 12:49 pm

fredrick.long wrote:With these comics, it is also hard not to be anachronistic, and there are probably allowable limits to what is and is not acceptable. So, the comic type that is stereotyped (looking a bit like Steamboat Micky, or Gabby more so) allows more forgiveness of anachronism than would a more realistic looking comic, I think, unless the styling was betraying/signalling intentionally that it was not trying to be "accurate" to the setting, etc.
I agree. There are other directions you can go - take the Jesus Christ Superstar / Godspell route and use modern people, perhaps from multiple cultures, or use puppets or clay or whatever.

Image

Image

Or put actors in costumes and take pictures:

Image

There are a lot of free images on the Internet now that you can use, if you look around. Check the usage rights, of course. Or produce your own.
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ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/

fredrick.long
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Re: Mark Illustrated with Greek

Post by fredrick.long » December 3rd, 2016, 1:04 pm

Jonathan, You mentioned posing of actors with costume, etc., that is what our illustrator did, and from these people and poses, illustrated the scene. Thus, I think, the illustrations are very people focused and may miss things at times, like the night setting, in the above instance. But, I have to say, he is elsewhere good with time/setting--so it is interesting that I chose to provide an example to the forum that did this poorly. Yet, this has provided some good reflection and ideas.
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Jonathan Robie
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Re: Mark Illustrated with Greek

Post by Jonathan Robie » December 4th, 2016, 7:03 am

fredrick.long wrote:Jonathan, You mentioned posing of actors with costume, etc., that is what our illustrator did, and from these people and poses, illustrated the scene. Thus, I think, the illustrations are very people focused and may miss things at times, like the night setting, in the above instance. But, I have to say, he is elsewhere good with time/setting--so it is interesting that I chose to provide an example to the forum that did this poorly. Yet, this has provided some good reflection and ideas.
I think the best way to figure this stuff out is to try out different variations and watch students try to use it. We definitely need more resources that try to do what you are trying to do.

I use pictures every week in my class, and have strong opinions about what works for me. Some of this may also depend on how you go about teaching. For independent learning, you can watch students read without a teacher, see how engaged they are, etc.
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ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/

fredrick.long
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Re: Mark Illustrated with Greek

Post by fredrick.long » December 4th, 2016, 10:09 pm

Jonathan,

It is fascinating that you use images each week in your instruction of Greek. I liked the name tag idea. I have students the first week go to the dry erase board and write out their full name in Greek sounds/characters. It is a good exercise that helps them learn: 1) sounding, 2) alphabet, 3) mono/diphthongs, 4) options for writing these out, and 5) get to know each other.
Would you ever consider publishing your "image" ideas?
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Stephen Hughes
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Re: Mark Illustrated with Greek

Post by Stephen Hughes » December 5th, 2016, 6:59 am

Jonathan Robie wrote:
Stephen Hughes wrote:Of course, there wouldn't be a great market for any non-literal interpretation graphical depictions, though.
I'm not sure what authentic Greek text you would accompany these graphics with, either. Or what they would look like.
Anything non-literal become difficult in pictures. The soteriological or "cosmic" significance of the Jonah story as a variantion on the Chaoskrieg motif is much more difficult to visualise than it is to understand.
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Γελᾷ δ' ὁ μωρός, κἄν τι μὴ γέλοιον ᾖ
(Menander, Γνῶμαι μονόστιχοι 108)

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