Online Texts (Byzantine Majority; Westcott-Hort)

Textbooks, Graded Readers, Beginner Resources and links, Teaching aids, etc.
Devenios Doulenios
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Re: Online Texts (Byzantine Majority; Westcott-Hort)

Post by Devenios Doulenios » June 17th, 2018, 8:01 pm

Hello Mindy,

A good source for Westcott-Hort (both text to read and audio to listen to) is John Simon's http://greeknewtestamentaudio.com. His reading uses a modified Historic/Modern Koine accent and is much better, and easy to listen to. Not a slow reading, but not fast either. There is a link there to the text form for reading the Greek NT.

Many of the people who criticize Westcott and Hort's beliefs allege they are heretics because they didn't follow the traditional Greek texts handed down from previous centuries. Principally they are of a persuasion known as King James Only, which alleges that God providentially preserved without error one particular type of New Testament text, the type that lies behind the King James Bible in English. This form, called the Textus Receptus, is similar to the Majority Text but not identical with it. Typically these individuals do not have any real knowledge of Greek or of textual criticism, but parrot what they have heard from others.

(I realize we don't ordinarily get into textual criticism here or into theology, so I'm attempting to explain this objectively.)

Some Bible software apps also have Wescott-Hort and Majority Text modules. There are some good ones from the Crosswire Bible Society online and from Olive Tree Bible Software.
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"τὴν ζωὴν καὶ τὸν θάνατον δέδωκα πρὸ προσώπου ὑμῶν τὴν εὐλογίαν καὶ τὴν κατάραν ἔκλεξαι τὴν ζωήν ἵνα ζῇς σὺ καὶ τὸ σπέρμα σου"-Δευτερονόμιον 30:19

"Ὁδοὶ δύο εἰσί, μία τῆς ζωῆς καὶ μία τοῦ θανάτου."--Διδαχή Α, α'

Mindy
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Re: Online Texts (Byzantine Majority; Westcott-Hort)

Post by Mindy » June 18th, 2018, 1:53 am

RandallButh wrote:
June 17th, 2018, 12:00 pm

In many places, the readings that you are using do not accent the correct syllables, and the timing and intonation do not always match the content and focus of the writings. Consequently, the readings may not always be helpful and are unreliable.
Hello Randall,

Thank you.

I have recognised some of their mistakes. Only because their reading speeds are slow and medium, I have been listening to them. Maybe this is why Marilyn Phemister has been introduced by Chinese Greek internet.

I have been learning Mark verse by verse with the limited resources. This is how I have been learning: On the first day I learn verse 1. I listen to mp3s by this order: Prof. Robinson (slow speed), Louis Sorenson (moderate), Marilyn Phemister (medium), John Simon (quick) and Vasilios Vellas (fast). On the second day I learn verses 1-2, On the third day verses 1-3, and so on...

Your name is on the list of Greek audio. Why did you choose Westcott-Hort text?

I read a biography introduction of the British hymnist John Newton (1725-1807). He taught himself both Hebrew and Greek. Which Greek text did he read?

Thank you all.
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Mindy
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Joined: April 17th, 2018, 1:43 pm

Re: Online Texts (Byzantine Majority; Westcott-Hort)

Post by Mindy » June 18th, 2018, 4:05 am

Devenios Doulenios wrote:
June 17th, 2018, 8:01 pm
Hello Mindy,

A good source for Westcott-Hort (both text to read and audio to listen to) is John Simon's http://greeknewtestamentaudio.com. His reading uses a modified Historic/Modern Koine accent and is much better, and easy to listen to. Not a slow reading, but not fast either. There is a link there to the text form for reading the Greek NT. "

Thank you, Devenios.

I don't have access to the link for the text. But I have access to his mp3: http://www.helding.net/greeklatinaudio/greek/

I have been listening to him.

Thank you again.
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RandallButh
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Re: Online Texts (Byzantine Majority; Westcott-Hort)

Post by RandallButh » June 18th, 2018, 4:07 am

I choose Westcott-Hort at times for the simple reason that it is/was copyright free. It is functionally the same as NA28 or SBL. Over the years, however, I have moved more in the direction of accepting the plausability and practicality of the Byzantine Text. I think that Maurice Robinson's 54-page essay at the end of the Robinson-Pierpont edition of the Byzantine text is one of the most overlooked gems in NT secondary literature. Get ahold of it for a balancing perspective. I now do my memory work from the Byz text.

Newton would have used a version of the Byzantine text.

If you are teaching yourself Greek, please consider what would be necessary to teach oneself French, German, Russian or any other human language. I raise the issue, because when it comes to Greek and Hebrew, most practitioners do not think with common sense on language and most students are unaware of the results* of their studies until they've learned not to care. What does this last sentence mean? I've given advice to grad students for forty years that the best thing that they could do for their biblical and/or OT studies is to spend 1-2 YEARS immersed in Hebrew BEFORE doing their PhD, otherwise they have a 99%+ chance of never becoming fluent in Hebrew. I've had students scoff, only to come back ten years later and say, yea, you were right, but it doesn't matter, that is the state of the field! Sad and shocking.
[*results?: ask a Greek professor to tell you in Greek what they did last week or to provide five minutes in Greek on how Christianity spread 30-70 CE. They (99%+) can't do it. Students are often not aware that that is the state of the field. If this were any other language, the teachers would be fired, or more aptly, would never be hired. A French teacher who can't say what they did last week in French?! laisse-moi tranquille!, vous plaisantez! go figure! get real!]
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Mindy
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Re: Online Texts (Byzantine Majority; Westcott-Hort)

Post by Mindy » June 18th, 2018, 5:08 am

Hello Randall,

About 30 years ago I learned French as a second foreign language for one and a half years at university. I used it more than English during our practical placement at Friendship Store in Guangzhou. But I didn't use it after the graduation. So I have forgotten it.

In 2014 my cousin's daughter came to Guangzhou to learn German. Influenced by her I began to listen to German Bible. As she left for her study in Germany, I stopped learning German.

At the end of 2015 I came to know about Hebrew by WeChat. I started to learn Hebrew in 2016. I have learned Hebrew Torah once. Now I have been learning it again. I began to learn Greek last May. Since I learn Hebrew Torah every day, meanwhile I have been trying to learn LXX.

I have found Greek harder than Hebrew. If we can learn Greek, then we can manage to learn Hebrew.

Latin is easier than Greek. If it's a biblical language, I would have learned it first before I learned Greek.

Just recently after reading your article about listening at Greek audio, I have been trying to listen to different mp3s with different pronunciations and speeds. I have found it helpful. This kind of listening not only reviews what has been learned, but also trains our listening skills.

Thank you for your advice and help!
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Barry Hofstetter
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Re: Online Texts (Byzantine Majority; Westcott-Hort)

Post by Barry Hofstetter » June 18th, 2018, 5:57 am

Mindy wrote:
June 18th, 2018, 1:53 am

I have recognised some of their mistakes. Only because their reading speeds are slow and medium, I have been listening to them. Maybe this is why Marilyn Phemister has been introduced by Chinese Greek internet.

I have been learning Mark verse by verse with the limited resources. This is how I have been learning: On the first day I learn verse 1. I listen to mp3s by this order: Prof. Robinson (slow speed), Louis Sorenson (moderate), Marilyn Phemister (medium), John Simon (quick) and Vasilios Vellas (fast). On the second day I learn verses 1-2, On the third day verses 1-3, and so on...

Your name is on the list of Greek audio. Why did you choose Westcott-Hort text?

I read a biography introduction of the British hymnist John Newton (1725-1807). He taught himself both Hebrew and Greek. Which Greek text did he read?

Thank you all.
For the purposes of learning the language, it doesn't matter whether you use the Byzantine text, Westcott and Hort, or more recent critical editions. In addition to listening to audio and presumably comparing English and Chinese translations, what else are you doing to learn the languages? If you are the same Mindy that was on Textkit, you were for a while at least working through Crosby and Schaeffer. Are you still doing that? Randall Buth's website and the Koine Institute with Michael Halcomb could be very helpful to you as well.
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N.E. Barry Hofstetter
Instructor of Latin
Jack M. Barrack Hebrew Academy
Χαίρετε ἐν κυρίῳ πάντοτε· πάλιν ἐρῶ, χαίρετε

Mindy
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Joined: April 17th, 2018, 1:43 pm

Re: Online Texts (Byzantine Majority; Westcott-Hort)

Post by Mindy » June 18th, 2018, 7:13 am

Barry Hofstetter wrote:
June 18th, 2018, 5:57 am

For the purposes of learning the language, it doesn't matter whether you use the Byzantine text, Westcott and Hort, or more recent critical editions. In addition to listening to audio and presumably comparing English and Chinese translations, what else are you doing to learn the languages? If you are the same Mindy that was on Textkit, you were for a while at least working through Crosby and Schaeffer. Are you still doing that? Randall Buth's website and the Koine Institute with Michael Halcomb could be very helpful to you as well.
Thank you, Barry.

But I think the choice of the text matters. Maybe that is why the Greek Bible.com and the German Bible Society choose the uncontroversial texts. Yes, for the purposes of learning the language, it doesn't matter which text to use especially when we don't have many choices.

I have been learning some vocabulary on Memrise.

I am grateful for Textkit. But I am sorry for having stopped learning Crosby and Schaeffer textbook, even though it is helpful.

I will listen to Dr. Buth's recordings.

Thank you all for all your help!
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Barry Hofstetter
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Joined: May 6th, 2011, 1:48 pm

Re: Online Texts (Byzantine Majority; Westcott-Hort)

Post by Barry Hofstetter » June 18th, 2018, 8:42 am

Mindy wrote:
June 18th, 2018, 7:13 am

Thank you, Barry.

But I think the choice of the text matters. Maybe that is why the Greek Bible.com and the German Bible Society choose the uncontroversial texts. Yes, for the purposes of learning the language, it doesn't matter which text to use especially when we don't have many choices.

I have been learning some vocabulary on Memrise.

I am grateful for Textkit. But I am sorry for having stopped learning Crosby and Schaeffer textbook, even though it is helpful.

I will listen to Dr. Buth's recordings.

Thank you all for all your help!
They choose those texts because they are not copyrighted. That is also true of Westcott & Hort.
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N.E. Barry Hofstetter
Instructor of Latin
Jack M. Barrack Hebrew Academy
Χαίρετε ἐν κυρίῳ πάντοτε· πάλιν ἐρῶ, χαίρετε

Mindy
Posts: 37
Joined: April 17th, 2018, 1:43 pm

Re: Online Texts (Byzantine Majority; Westcott-Hort)

Post by Mindy » June 18th, 2018, 9:34 am

Barry Hofstetter wrote:
June 18th, 2018, 8:42 am

They choose those texts because they are not copyrighted. That is also true of Westcott & Hort.
Now I understand. Thank you, Barry.
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Mindy
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Joined: April 17th, 2018, 1:43 pm

Re: Online Texts (Byzantine Majority; Westcott-Hort)

Post by Mindy » June 19th, 2018, 1:07 am

Mindy wrote:
June 18th, 2018, 7:13 am
Barry Hofstetter wrote:
June 18th, 2018, 5:57 am

For the purposes of learning the language, it doesn't matter whether you use the Byzantine text, Westcott and Hort, or more recent critical editions. In addition to listening to audio and presumably comparing English and Chinese translations, what else are you doing to learn the languages? If you are the same Mindy that was on Textkit, you were for a while at least working through Crosby and Schaeffer. Are you still doing that? Randall Buth's website and the Koine Institute with Michael Halcomb could be very helpful to you as well.
I am grateful for Textkit. But I am sorry for having stopped learning Crosby and Schaeffer textbook, even though it is helpful.
Maybe it is mainly for Greek students, but not for biblical Greek students. I learned it because it was the first and only textbook I ever had.
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