OLD OLD OLD Newbie

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Diak (Jack) Anosh
Posts: 2
Joined: June 6th, 2017, 6:00 pm

OLD OLD OLD Newbie

Post by Diak (Jack) Anosh » June 6th, 2017, 6:23 pm

Hello -
I use the name "Diak (Jack) Anosh" because, being ignorant as I am, everyone will understand I am a servant, not a teacher or instructor.

I am too old, old, old to think about school, but still am eager to "search the scriptures daily, whether certain things are so."

I am currently 83 years old, and just a little hesitant to get too smug over that little fact of accomplishment, because I have to wonder if it is truly something I have accomplished, or if it is the result of something God has in store for me; Truly I hope He can use me for good.

I flunked Koine' Greek in college so I probably won't challenge beyond my knowledge capacity, which sometimes seems a little less than I remember it being.

But, at least no one can fault me for pretending to know something. As Sargent Schultz used to say "I KNOW NOTHINK."

I dearly love taking a walk through the scriptures, and stopping to consider the variables.

One of the hardest problems I am having, is determining the truth of the translation of the Psalm 138, verse 2; mostly because it seems some of those who teach it, are pretending to know more than the text provides. I do not fault that. Sometimes it is all I have left after a day of attempting to learn. I pretend to have learnt something. (It's either that or admit I have totally wasted a day I cannot afford to totally waste.)

Anyway, did God place His name above His logion? Or did He place His logion above His name? Or, "none of the above!"

Perhaps we can discern the truth of the message; perhaps not. We shall see! Or, we won't.

Jonathan Robie
Posts: 2973
Joined: May 5th, 2011, 5:34 pm
Location: Durham, NC
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Re: OLD OLD OLD Newbie

Post by Jonathan Robie » June 7th, 2017, 10:18 am

Welcome, Diak,

I hope we can be useful. Here are some guidelines for beginners on B-Greek:

viewtopic.php?f=38&t=11

As for your question about the Psalms, are you interested in the Hebrew or the Septuagint? If you are interested in the Greek, could you please post the text in the beginner's forum and ask a specific question about the language in the text you quote?
ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/

Diak (Jack) Anosh
Posts: 2
Joined: June 6th, 2017, 6:00 pm

Re: OLD OLD OLD Newbie

Post by Diak (Jack) Anosh » June 7th, 2017, 10:26 am

The Greek does not seem to properly state what the translation implies; the Hebrew does seem to follow the thought. (Please understand, I am not making statements of truth, but simply opinions of observation as I understand them.)

It looks to me as though the translators tried to do what the early Fathers attempted, i.e., to make the Greek text agree with the Hebrew, which it cannot do because the Greek is not a translation, it is a separate revelation from God for the Hebrews to keep in safe storage pending the salvation of the Gentiles. There are far too many places where the Greek disagrees with the Hebrew, for one to be a translation of the other.

Jonathan Robie
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Joined: May 5th, 2011, 5:34 pm
Location: Durham, NC
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Re: OLD OLD OLD Newbie

Post by Jonathan Robie » June 7th, 2017, 11:05 am

Could you please quote the Greek and the Hebrew you are talking about, and make more specific statements about what they say? I can't follow your arguments without looking this up. B-Greek rules ask you to provide the text instead of asking us to look them up. Ditto for the early fathers. In general, we try to avoid speaking in generalities here.

I think you are saying that the LXX and the Masoretic text disagree on some verse. That's not surprising or particularly unusual. Beyond that, I'm not sure what you are saying or asking.
Anyway, did God place His name above His logion? Or did He place His logion above His name? Or, "none of the above!"
Are you asking what the Greek text says? If so, what is the text, and what part of the text is difficult for you to understand? If not, this is probably the wrong forum for your question.
ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/

Shirley Rollinson
Posts: 267
Joined: June 4th, 2011, 6:19 pm
Location: New Mexico
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Re: OLD OLD OLD Newbie

Post by Shirley Rollinson » June 8th, 2017, 10:17 pm

Diak (Jack) Anosh wrote:
June 6th, 2017, 6:23 pm
Hello -
I use the name "Diak (Jack) Anosh" because, being ignorant as I am, everyone will understand I am a servant, not a teacher or instructor.

I am too old, old, old to think about school, but still am eager to "search the scriptures daily, whether certain things are so."

I am currently 83 years old, and just a little hesitant to get too smug over that little fact of accomplishment, because I have to wonder if it is truly something I have accomplished, or if it is the result of something God has in store for me; Truly I hope He can use me for good.

I flunked Koine' Greek in college so I probably won't challenge beyond my knowledge capacity, which sometimes seems a little less than I remember it being. . . . ."
Welcome Diak - if you want to brush up your Koine, you're welcome to check out the Online Greek Textbook at http://www.drshirley.org/greek/textbook02/index.html - and if you have questions, don't hesitate to ask.
Shirley Rollinson

Jonathan Robie
Posts: 2973
Joined: May 5th, 2011, 5:34 pm
Location: Durham, NC
Contact:

Re: OLD OLD OLD Newbie

Post by Jonathan Robie » June 9th, 2017, 5:53 pm

Shirley Rollinson wrote:
June 8th, 2017, 10:17 pm
Welcome Diak - if you want to brush up your Koine, you're welcome to check out the Online Greek Textbook at http://www.drshirley.org/greek/textbook02/index.html - and if you have questions, don't hesitate to ask.
And please do feel free to ask questions here, just cite the text and ask specific questions about the interpretation of the text when you do so. I wasn't trying to chase you away, I was just trying to keep our focus on the Greek text, which has not been posted yet, and to keep the questions specific.
ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/

mjmselim
Posts: 2
Joined: June 10th, 2017, 10:23 am

Re: OLD OLD OLD Newbie

Post by mjmselim » June 10th, 2017, 11:25 am

I believe Old Newbie is playing with us; he is concerned with the exaltation of the Word above the Name; how it is confused in the LXX and with others. The notion has been advocated at different times; most popularly by Bullinger. Below I tried to copy/paste the Greek and Hebrew , only the 1st from the web was successful; the quotes from my Bibloi program is nonsense in display; don't know how to correct this. (btw, like your site; used it several times.)

LXX 138:2 προσκυνήσω πρὸς ναὸν ἅγιόν σου καὶ ἐξομολογήσομαι τῷ ὀνόματί σου ἐπὶ τῷ ἐλέει σου καὶ τῇ ἀληθείᾳ σου ὅτι ἐμεγάλυνας ἐπὶ πᾶν ὄνομα τὸ λόγιόν σου

LXX 137.2 (138:2) proskunh/sw pro\j nao\n aÀgio/n sou kaiì e)comologh/somai t%½ o)no/mati¿ sou )e)piì t%½ e)le/ei sou kaiì tv= a)lhqei¿# sou, oÀti e)mega/lunaj e)piì pa=n oÃnoma to\ lo/gio/n sou.

ASV: Ps 138:2 I will worship toward Thy holy temple, And give thanks unto Thy Name for Thy lovingkindness and for Thy truth: For thou hast magnified Thy Word above all Thy Name.

Brenton's LXX Psalms 138:2 I will worship toward thy holy temple, and give thanks to thy name, on account of thy mercy and thy truth; for thou hast magnified thy holy name above every thing.

Û!:D:sax-la( !èem:$-te) hÜedOç)ºw ä!:$:dfq lÔaky"h-le) híewAxaT:$e) 138.2
;!×etfr:mi) è!:mi$÷-lfK-la( fT:lÛaD:gih-y×iK !ÕeTimA)-la(ºw

Hebrew translit: (ki-higdalta al-kol-shimka imratheka)
Michael J. Miles

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