κάθου! κάθισον! καθίσατε!

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Jonathan Robie
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κάθου! κάθισον! καθίσατε!

Post by Jonathan Robie » August 29th, 2015, 11:22 am

When asking people to sit down, the Greek New Testament uses κάθου (a form of κάθημαι) and καθίσατε (a form of καθίζω), but not κάθισον, which appears in the LXX.

Is there a difference in meaning between κάθου and κάθισον? Is there any particular reason to use one of these forms rather than the other in a classroom setting? At first blush, I see these tradeoffs:
  • κάθου and κάθισον seem to have the same meaning
  • It would be really convenient to use two forms that belong to the same word in class, especially when we cover morphology, which makes κάθισον / καθίσατε attractive.
  • It would be really convenient to use forms people will see when reading the GNT, which makes κάθου attractive.
So flip a coin? Or is there a reason to go one way or the other?

New Testament examples here:
καθίζω imperative aorist wrote: Matthew 26:36 Καθίσατε αὐτοῦ ἕως οὗ ἀπελθὼν ἐκεῖ προσεύξωμαι.
Mark 14:32 Καθίσατε ὧδε
Luke 24:49 ὑμεῖς καθίσατε ἐν τῇ πόλει ἕως οὗ ἐνδύσησθε ἐξ ὕψους
δύναμιν.
κάθημαι imperative present wrote: Matthew 22:44 Κάθου ἐκ δεξιῶν μου
Mark 12:36 Κάθου ἐκ δεξιῶν μου
Luke 20:42 Κάθου ἐκ δεξιῶν μου
Acts 02:34 Κάθου ἐκ δεξιῶν μου
Hebrews 01:13 Κάθου ἐκ δεξιῶν μου
James 02:03 Σὺ κάθου ὧδε καλῶς
James 02:03 κάθου ἐκεῖ ὑπὸ τὸ ὑποπόδιόν μου
Septuagint examples attached.
Attachments
καθίζω.pdf
(207.82 KiB) Downloaded 16 times
κάθημαι.pdf
(217.5 KiB) Downloaded 10 times
ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/

Louis L Sorenson
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Re: κάθου! κάθισον! καθίσατε!

Post by Louis L Sorenson » August 29th, 2015, 1:23 pm

Carl posted something about this somewhere. κάθου is something like, "Take your seat," "Grab a seat" while κάθισον is more like 'Sit down!" "Sit".

Jonathan Robie
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Re: κάθου! κάθισον! καθίσατε!

Post by Jonathan Robie » August 29th, 2015, 2:09 pm

Louis L Sorenson wrote:Carl posted something about this somewhere. κάθου is something like, "Take your seat," "Grab a seat" while κάθισον is more like 'Sit down!" "Sit".
Even in English, I'm having a hard time grasping the distinction in meaning. The distinction in form is obvious.
ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/

gdtrue
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Κάθισον (kathison)

Post by gdtrue » November 13th, 2017, 10:30 pm

Moderator's note: the following posts were merged from a separate thread.

I saw something about this but was not registered so I have registered but not sure about where to find this topic. It was under a Robie ... Jason... not sure. It was discussing the meaning of Κάθισον (kathison) and kathemai and kathidzo. I am not worried about the meaning but where to locate an example of the use of kathison. The article said it did not occur in the NT and only in the LXX. It does occur in Mark 12:36 in the eclectic versions. I cannot find an example of it in the LXX ... the corresponding LXX (Psalm 110:1 uses kathou from kathemai). Help me if you can? Thanks
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Jason Hare
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Re: Κάθισον (kathison)

Post by Jason Hare » November 13th, 2017, 10:53 pm

gdtrue wrote:
November 13th, 2017, 10:30 pm
I saw something about this but was not registered so I have registered but not sure about where to find this topic. It was under a Robie ... Jason... not sure. It was discussing the meaning of Κάθισον (kathison) and kathemai and kathidzo. I am not worried about the meaning but where to locate an example of the use of kathison. The article said it did not occur in the NT and only in the LXX. It does occur in Mark 12:36 in the eclectic versions. I cannot find an example of it in the LXX ... the corresponding LXX (Psalm 110:1 uses kathou from kathemai). Help me if you can? Thanks
Regards
I'm going to assume that you meant this thread. Based on that, I'll merge this into that thread once I've got your consent. ;)

I'm not sure how to refer to you, since you didn't use your name when you registered. On this forum, we maintain a policy by which everyone needs to identify themselves by name. Let me know what your name is (or if gdtrue is perhaps G.D. True, in which case you can simply add what your name is in your signature here). Let me or one of the other moderators know what to do with your username before you go on posting on the forum.

As per your question: Isaiah 47:1 and 47:5 both have κάθισον, as does Genesis 27:19.

Genesis 27:19
καὶ εἶπεν Ιακωβ τῷ πατρὶ αὐτοῦ ᾿Εγὼ Ησαυ ὁ πρωτότοκός σου· ἐποίησα, καθὰ ἐλάλησάς μοι· ἀναστὰς κάθισον καὶ φάγε τῆς θήρας μου, ὅπως εὐλογήσῃ με ἡ ψυχή σου.

Isaiah 47:1
Κατάβηθι κάθισον ἐπὶ τὴν γῆν, παρθένος θυγάτηρ Βαβυλῶνος, εἴσελθε εἰς τὸ σκότος, θυγάτηρ Χαλδαίων, ὅτι οὐκέτι προστεθήσῃ κληθῆναι ἁπαλὴ καὶ τρυφερά.

Isaiah 47:5
Κάθισον κατανενυγμένη, εἴσελθε εἰς τὸ σκότος, θυγάτηρ Χαλδαίων, οὐκέτι μὴ κληθῇς ἰσχὺς βασιλείας.

There may be other instances. This was just a quick search.

Regards,
Jason
Jason A. Hare
Tel Aviv, Israel

Jason Hare
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Re: Κάθισον (kathison)

Post by Jason Hare » November 13th, 2017, 10:59 pm

I see now that in Jonathan's original thread he included a PDF with all instances of κάθισον in the Septuagint. He lists ten verses in which it is found, eight of which are in the standard Old Testament books.

Moderator's note: this is the end of the merged posts.
Jason A. Hare
Tel Aviv, Israel

Ken M. Penner
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Re: Κάθισον (kathison)

Post by Ken M. Penner » November 14th, 2017, 10:01 am

gdtrue wrote:
November 13th, 2017, 10:30 pm
... It was discussing the meaning of Κάθισον (kathison) and kathemai and kathidzo. I am not worried about the meaning but where to locate an example of the use of kathison. The article said it did not occur in the NT and only in the LXX. It does occur in Mark 12:36 in the eclectic versions. I cannot find an example of it in the LXX ... the corresponding LXX (Psalm 110:1 uses kathou from kathemai). Help me if you can?
Try the following search: https://www.stepbible.org/?q=version=LX ... NTERLEAVED
Ken M. Penner
St. Francis Xavier University

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