Page 1 of 1

Matthew 13:45 ουρανων = heaven or heavens

Posted: January 23rd, 2015, 10:58 pm
by Jacob Rhoden
Matthew 13:45:
“Again, the Kingdom of Heaven is like..."
"παλιν ομοια εστιν η βασιλεια των ουρανων εμπορω ζητουντι καλους μαργαριτας"
I thought ουρανων would parse as "Masculine, Plural Genitive"? Why does it get translated to be "Heaven" not "Heavens"?

Re: Matthew 13:45 ουρανων = heaven or heavens

Posted: January 23rd, 2015, 11:49 pm
by timothy_p_mcmahon
You're correct; the form is plural.

The plural ουρανοι is often rendered by the singular heaven; ditto for Hebrew שמים.

It's a theological choice.

Re: Matthew 13:45 ουρανων = heaven or heavens

Posted: January 24th, 2015, 4:19 am
by Jacob Rhoden
Thanks Timothy, much appreciated. I guessed it would be something like that, but I'm still a beginner so this type of thing makes me wonder.

Re: Matthew 13:45 ουρανων = heaven or heavens

Posted: January 24th, 2015, 8:58 am
by Eeli Kaikkonen
timothy_p_mcmahon wrote:You're correct; the form is plural.

The plural ουρανοι is often rendered by the singular heaven; ditto for Hebrew שמים.
Yes, but...
timothy_p_mcmahon wrote: It's a theological choice.
is not well said. "Theological" choice may imply that if you have different (modern, systematic, dogmatic) theological framework than some Bible translator, you would translate it differently. But that's not the case. The choice is linguistic/exegetical. The Hebrew word is plural but doesn't necessarily mean "many, several heavens" but just "heaven". What that "heaven" is belongs to the area of historical exegesis and exegetical-biblical theology (or cultural history or something like that). For example, post-OT Judaism speculated about several heavens. But when the plural word is used it may be used for just one "heaven". It depends on the context. The translators don't translate it as singular because of their theology but because of the original writer's meaning.

Re: Matthew 13:45 ουρανων = heaven or heavens

Posted: January 24th, 2015, 1:35 pm
by Stirling Bartholomew
Eeli Kaikkonen wrote: What that "heaven" is belongs to the area of historical exegesis and exegetical-biblical theology (or cultural history or something like that). For example, post-OT Judaism speculated about several heavens. But when the plural word is used it may be used for just one "heaven". It depends on the context. The translators don't translate it as singular because of their theology but because of the original writer's meaning.
Yes and I might add that η βασιλεια των ουρανων appears to be Matthew's preferred expression for ἡ βασιλεία τοῦ θεοῦ which Matthew also uses. The discussion of this in the secondary literature is voluminous.

Matt. 6:33 ζητεῖτε δὲ πρῶτον τὴν βασιλείαν [τοῦ θεοῦ] καὶ τὴν δικαιοσύνην αὐτοῦ, καὶ ταῦτα πάντα προστεθήσεται ὑμῖν.

Matt. 12:28 εἰ δὲ ἐν πνεύματι θεοῦ ἐγὼ ἐκβάλλω τὰ δαιμόνια, ἄρα ἔφθασεν ἐφ᾿ ὑμᾶς ἡ βασιλεία τοῦ θεοῦ.

Matt. 19:24 πάλιν δὲ λέγω ὑμῖν, εὐκοπώτερόν ἐστιν κάμηλον διὰ τρυπήματος ῥαφίδος διελθεῖν ἢ πλούσιον εἰσελθεῖν εἰς τὴν βασιλείαν τοῦ θεοῦ.

Matt. 21:31 τίς ἐκ τῶν δύο ἐποίησεν τὸ θέλημα τοῦ πατρός; λέγουσιν· ὁ πρῶτος. λέγει αὐτοῖς ὁ Ἰησοῦς· ἀμὴν λέγω ὑμῖν ὅτι οἱ τελῶναι καὶ αἱ πόρναι προάγουσιν ὑμᾶς εἰς τὴν βασιλείαν τοῦ θεοῦ.

Matt. 21:43 διὰ τοῦτο λέγω ὑμῖν ὅτι ἀρθήσεται ἀφ᾿ ὑμῶν ἡ βασιλεία τοῦ θεοῦ καὶ δοθήσεται ἔθνει ποιοῦντι τοὺς καρποὺς αὐτῆς.

Re: Matthew 13:45 ουρανων = heaven or heavens

Posted: January 25th, 2015, 12:11 pm
by ed krentz
Years ago Adolf Schlatter in Die Theologie des Judentums nach dem Bericht des Josephus held that in Josephus ouranos in the plural denoted heaven in opposition to the earth, the proper place of God, while heaven in the singular was the correlate to earth, the two denoting the totality of the created universe. Note that in the Matthean Lord's Prayer, the plural is used in the intro, while the singular is used in the third petition. Makes sense to me in the phrase the Kingdom of the ouranoi..

Re: Matthew 13:45 ουρανων = heaven or heavens

Posted: January 25th, 2015, 8:27 pm
by Jacob Rhoden
Who would have thought such as simple question could turn out to be so interesting. Looks like I've got some reading to do :geek: :geek:

Re: Matthew 13:45 ουρανων = heaven or heavens

Posted: January 26th, 2015, 9:40 am
by cwconrad
Jacob Rhoden wrote:Who would have thought such as simple question could turn out to be so interesting. Looks like I've got some reading to do :geek: :geek:
You never know. Keep asking questions; some of them may have simple answers; some may lead you on a wild good chase; someday your "idle" curiosity may lead you to an earthshaking discovery, or perhaps to an intellectual exploration that will make a worthwhile research topic and launch an academic career ...

Re: Matthew 13:45 ουρανων = heaven or heavens

Posted: February 3rd, 2015, 6:52 am
by Jacob Rhoden
cwconrad wrote:
Jacob Rhoden wrote:Who would have thought such as simple question could turn out to be so interesting. Looks like I've got some reading to do :geek: :geek:
You never know. Keep asking questions; some of them may have simple answers; some may lead you on a wild good chase; someday your "idle" curiosity may lead you to an earthshaking discovery, or perhaps to an intellectual exploration that will make a worthwhile research topic and launch an academic career ...
Thanks for the encouragement. I've just started an intensive study of greek at a college near where I live and am finding it quite enjoyable, I do hope to see it through to fluency of sorts.