John 7:25-26. Do they recognise Jesus?

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Tim Evans
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Joined: July 10th, 2015, 1:40 am

John 7:25-26. Do they recognise Jesus?

Post by Tim Evans »

I have a question which is probably about the usage of οὐχ in a question, but I am not sure. There seems to me to be a minor discrepancy between how this question is understood in EGGNT (Murray) and WBC (Beasley-Murry)

Does this question suggest that the crowd recognises Jesus but are not 100% sure that he is Jesus (doubt perhaps inspired because he is being allowed to teach openly), or does this question suggest that the crowd is unsure if this is in fact the Jesus that the leaders with to kill?
Ἔλεγον οὖν τινες ἐκ τῶν Ἱεροσολυμιτῶν· οὐχ οὗτός ἐστιν ὃν ζητοῦσιν ἀποκτεῖναι; καὶ ἴδε παρρησίᾳ λαλεῖ καὶ οὐδὲν αὐτῷ λέγουσιν. μήποτε ἀληθῶς ἔγνωσαν οἱ ἄρχοντες ὅτι οὗτός ἐστιν ὁ χριστός;
I had read "οὐχ οὗτός ἐστιν" as meaning they were uncertain as to if this was Jesus because they didn't recognise him, rather than because it appears the leaders are allowing him to able to teach freely.
Jonathan Robie
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Re: John 7:25-26. Do they recognise Jesus?

Post by Jonathan Robie »

Tim Evans wrote:I have a question which is probably about the usage of οὐχ in a question, but I am not sure.
Yes, I think it is.
Smyth wrote:2651. οὐ, ἆρ᾽ ου᾽, οὐκοῦν expect the answer yes (nonne), μή, ἆρα μή, μῶν ( = μὴ οὖν) expect the answer no (num).

a. οὐχ οὕτως ἔλεγες; did you not say so? P. R. 334b (i.e. ‘I think you did, did you not?’), ἆρ᾽ οὐχ ὕβρις τάδε; is not this insolence? S. O. C. 883, οὐκοῦν . . . εὖ σοι δοκοῦσι βουλεύεσθαι; do they not then seem to you to plan well? X. C. 7.1.8. οὐκοῦν οὐ expects the answer no.
Jannaris wrote:2651. οὐ, ἆρ᾽ ου᾽, οὐκοῦν expect the answer yes (nonne), μή, ἆρα μή, μῶν ( = μὴ οὖν) expect the answer no (num).

a. οὐχ οὕτως ἔλεγες; did you not say so? P. R. 334b (i.e. ‘I think you did, did you not?’), ἆρ᾽ οὐχ ὕβρις τάδε; is not this insolence? S. O. C. 883, οὐκοῦν . . . εὖ σοι δοκοῦσι βουλεύεσθαι; do they not then seem to you to plan well? X. C. 7.1.8. οὐκοῦν οὐ expects the answer no.
Consider this passage in Matthew 13, where the people he grew up with certainly recognized him:
Matthew 13 wrote:55 οὐχ οὗτός ἐστιν ὁ τοῦ τέκτονος υἱός; οὐχ ἡ μήτηρ αὐτοῦ λέγεται Μαριὰμ καὶ οἱ ἀδελφοὶ αὐτοῦ Ἰάκωβος καὶ Ἰωσὴφ καὶ Σίμων καὶ Ἰούδας; 56 καὶ αἱ ἀδελφαὶ αὐτοῦ οὐχὶ πᾶσαι πρὸς ἡμᾶς εἰσιν; πόθεν οὖν τούτῳ ταῦτα πάντα;
Consider the use of οὐ in this part of James 2, it does not introduce doubt:
James 2 wrote:ἀκούσατε, ἀδελφοί μου ἀγαπητοί. οὐχ ὁ θεὸς ἐξελέξατο τοὺς πτωχοὺς τῷ κόσμῳ πλουσίους ἐν πίστει καὶ κληρονόμους τῆς βασιλείας ἧς ἐπηγγείλατο τοῖς ἀγαπῶσιν αὐτόν; 6 ὑμεῖς δὲ ἠτιμάσατε τὸν πτωχόν. οὐχ οἱ πλούσιοι καταδυναστεύουσιν ὑμῶν, καὶ αὐτοὶ ἕλκουσιν ὑμᾶς εἰς κριτήρια; 7 οὐκ αὐτοὶ βλασφημοῦσιν τὸ καλὸν ὄνομα τὸ ἐπικληθὲν ἐφ’ ὑμᾶς;
Or consider Luke 12:6:
Luke 12:6 wrote:οὐχὶ πέντε στρουθία πωλοῦνται ἀσσαρίων δύο; καὶ ἓν ἐξ αὐτῶν οὐκ ἔστιν ἐπιλελησμένον ἐνώπιον τοῦ θεοῦ.
ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/
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