Aorist stem formation

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Mitch Tulloch
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Aorist stem formation

Post by Mitch Tulloch »

Chapter 13 of the Cambridge Grammer of Classical Greek (CGCG) identifies three ways aorist stems are formed: sigmatic, thematic and root. But traditional Greek New Testament grammers only identify two aorist forms: first aorist (sigmatic) and second aorist (everything else).

My question is, do present-day Koine grammers (and experts) still hold to the traditional 1st/2nd aorist morphology or do they align (or trend towards aligning) with the CGCG morphology?

Thanks!
Cheers,
Mitch Tulloch
Jason Hare
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Re: Aorist stem formation

Post by Jason Hare »

For the most part, you’re asking this of people who learned Greek nomenclature from older books. I learned “first aorist” and “second aorist” because I learned Greek originally from Mounce’s Basics of Biblical Greek. It’s the terminology that I’m familiar with. Subsequently, I have completed the Athenaze set, and there was nothing of this nomenclature in it. It just talks about sigmatic and asigmatic aorists.
Jason A. Hare
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Devenios Doulenios
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Re: Aorist stem formation

Post by Devenios Doulenios »

How does the Cambridge grammar define thematic aorist? (I don't have access.)
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Jonathan Robie
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Re: Aorist stem formation

Post by Jonathan Robie »

Devenios Doulenios wrote: August 16th, 2023, 11:27 am How does the Cambridge grammar define thematic aorist? (I don't have access.)
Cambridge has:
  • Sigmatic Aorists and Pseudo-Sigmatic Aorists
  • Thematic Aorists
  • Root Aorists
Screenshot 2023-08-17 at 15.40.56.png
Screenshot 2023-08-17 at 15.40.56.png (586.38 KiB) Viewed 8603 times
ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
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Devenios Doulenios
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Re: Aorist stem formation

Post by Devenios Doulenios »

νυν οιδα, ω φιλε. ευχαριστω σοι.
Dewayne Dulaney
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Jason Hare
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Re: Aorist stem formation

Post by Jason Hare »

Devenios Doulenios wrote: August 18th, 2023, 9:20 am νυν οιδα, ω φιλε. ευχαριστω σοι.
Why not think of a way to join these two sentences together using a participle? Perhaps turn οἶδα into a participle or use γινώσκω or μανθάνω instead. Would you still use a vocative if that were done? :)

Perhaps something like: σοί, ὦ φίλε, εὐχαριστῶ ταῦτα γνούς.

It might just add to the style. What do you think?
Jason A. Hare
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Devenios Doulenios
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Re: Aorist stem formation

Post by Devenios Doulenios »

Could be you're right. I wrote it on the fly at work, so didn't think about it too much. ;)
Dewayne Dulaney
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Stephen Carlson
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Re: Aorist stem formation

Post by Stephen Carlson »

Jonathan Robie wrote: August 17th, 2023, 3:44 pm Sigmatic Aorists and Pseudo-Sigmatic Aorists
"Pseudo-sigmatic" is a new term and not particularly transparent as there is no sigma left in the form. "Liquid" aorist is the usual term, and as bad as "liquid" is, I see no reason to invent a term even more opaque.
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Mitch Tulloch
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Re: Aorist stem formation

Post by Mitch Tulloch »

Well I guess that answers my question :)
Cheers,
Mitch Tulloch
Jonathan Robie
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Re: Aorist stem formation

Post by Jonathan Robie »

Stephen Carlson wrote: August 18th, 2023, 9:14 pm
Jonathan Robie wrote: August 17th, 2023, 3:44 pm Sigmatic Aorists and Pseudo-Sigmatic Aorists
"Pseudo-sigmatic" is a new term and not particularly transparent as there is no sigma left in the form. "Liquid" aorist is the usual term, and as bad as "liquid" is, I see no reason to invent a term even more opaque.
I actually like liquid, it has a precise meaning. It is used for verb stems ending in -λ, -μ, -ν, or -ρ, which are "liquid consonants", which Thrax called ὑγρός. So the following scheme at least is clear about the forms involved:
  • Sigmatic Aorists - formed with a sigma
  • Liquid Aorists - for verb stems that end with a liquid consonant
  • Thematic Aorists - formed with a sigmatic vowel
  • Root Aorists - formed by adding endings directly to the aorist stem
Once you know what each word means, it's a whole lot easier to remember.
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