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Aorist stem formation

Posted: August 11th, 2023, 11:50 am
by Mitch Tulloch
Chapter 13 of the Cambridge Grammer of Classical Greek (CGCG) identifies three ways aorist stems are formed: sigmatic, thematic and root. But traditional Greek New Testament grammers only identify two aorist forms: first aorist (sigmatic) and second aorist (everything else).

My question is, do present-day Koine grammers (and experts) still hold to the traditional 1st/2nd aorist morphology or do they align (or trend towards aligning) with the CGCG morphology?

Thanks!

Re: Aorist stem formation

Posted: August 16th, 2023, 6:13 am
by Jason Hare
For the most part, you’re asking this of people who learned Greek nomenclature from older books. I learned “first aorist” and “second aorist” because I learned Greek originally from Mounce’s Basics of Biblical Greek. It’s the terminology that I’m familiar with. Subsequently, I have completed the Athenaze set, and there was nothing of this nomenclature in it. It just talks about sigmatic and asigmatic aorists.

Re: Aorist stem formation

Posted: August 16th, 2023, 11:27 am
by Devenios Doulenios
How does the Cambridge grammar define thematic aorist? (I don't have access.)

Re: Aorist stem formation

Posted: August 17th, 2023, 3:44 pm
by Jonathan Robie
Devenios Doulenios wrote: August 16th, 2023, 11:27 am How does the Cambridge grammar define thematic aorist? (I don't have access.)
Cambridge has:
  • Sigmatic Aorists and Pseudo-Sigmatic Aorists
  • Thematic Aorists
  • Root Aorists
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Re: Aorist stem formation

Posted: August 18th, 2023, 9:20 am
by Devenios Doulenios
νυν οιδα, ω φιλε. ευχαριστω σοι.

Re: Aorist stem formation

Posted: August 18th, 2023, 11:48 am
by Jason Hare
Devenios Doulenios wrote: August 18th, 2023, 9:20 am νυν οιδα, ω φιλε. ευχαριστω σοι.
Why not think of a way to join these two sentences together using a participle? Perhaps turn οἶδα into a participle or use γινώσκω or μανθάνω instead. Would you still use a vocative if that were done? :)

Perhaps something like: σοί, ὦ φίλε, εὐχαριστῶ ταῦτα γνούς.

It might just add to the style. What do you think?

Re: Aorist stem formation

Posted: August 18th, 2023, 12:28 pm
by Devenios Doulenios
Could be you're right. I wrote it on the fly at work, so didn't think about it too much. ;)

Re: Aorist stem formation

Posted: August 18th, 2023, 9:14 pm
by Stephen Carlson
Jonathan Robie wrote: August 17th, 2023, 3:44 pm Sigmatic Aorists and Pseudo-Sigmatic Aorists
"Pseudo-sigmatic" is a new term and not particularly transparent as there is no sigma left in the form. "Liquid" aorist is the usual term, and as bad as "liquid" is, I see no reason to invent a term even more opaque.

Re: Aorist stem formation

Posted: August 19th, 2023, 1:21 pm
by Mitch Tulloch
Well I guess that answers my question :)

Re: Aorist stem formation

Posted: August 20th, 2023, 9:12 am
by Jonathan Robie
Stephen Carlson wrote: August 18th, 2023, 9:14 pm
Jonathan Robie wrote: August 17th, 2023, 3:44 pm Sigmatic Aorists and Pseudo-Sigmatic Aorists
"Pseudo-sigmatic" is a new term and not particularly transparent as there is no sigma left in the form. "Liquid" aorist is the usual term, and as bad as "liquid" is, I see no reason to invent a term even more opaque.
I actually like liquid, it has a precise meaning. It is used for verb stems ending in -λ, -μ, -ν, or -ρ, which are "liquid consonants", which Thrax called ὑγρός. So the following scheme at least is clear about the forms involved:
  • Sigmatic Aorists - formed with a sigma
  • Liquid Aorists - for verb stems that end with a liquid consonant
  • Thematic Aorists - formed with a sigmatic vowel
  • Root Aorists - formed by adding endings directly to the aorist stem
Once you know what each word means, it's a whole lot easier to remember.