Page 1 of 3

Athenaze

Posted: December 30th, 2011, 3:45 pm
by Mark Trzasko
Is anyone studying Greek from Athenaze, Book 1?

Re: Athenaze

Posted: December 31st, 2011, 8:12 am
by Barry Hofstetter
I am using it as a supplementary textbook for my Greek students, actually.

Re: Athenaze

Posted: December 31st, 2011, 8:49 am
by Jason Hare
I finished book 1, but I wouldn't mind a refresher from it. Are you asking for people to join you in study? What are you asking about?

Re: Athenaze

Posted: December 31st, 2011, 7:36 pm
by Mark Trzasko
I had a question concerning the story on page 25 (the Second Edition). The Greek word for "possible" is in the neuter case in the sentence of line 14, "For it is possible to lift the stone." Is it neuter because "it" is considered to be impersonal?

Re: Athenaze

Posted: January 1st, 2012, 7:30 pm
by Jason Hare
Mark Trzasko wrote:I had a question concerning the story on page 25 (the Second Edition). The Greek word for "possible" is in the neuter case in the sentence of line 14, "For it is possible to lift the stone." Is it neuter because "it" is considered to be impersonal?
The phrase in question is:

δυνατὸν γάρ ἐστιν αἴρειν τὸν λίθον.
For it is impossible to lift the stone.

The agreement would be with the infinitive itself.
From Smyth (§1985):
1985. Such quasi-impersonal verbs and expressions are δεῖ it is necessary, χρή (properly a substantive with ἐστί omitted, 793) it is necessary, δοκεῖ it seems good, ἔστι it is possible, ἔξεστι it is in one's power, οἷόν τέ ἐστι it is possible, πρέπει and προσήκει it is fitting, συμβαίνει it happens; and many expressions formed by ἐστί and a predicate noun, as ἄξιον it is right, δίκαιον it is just, ἀναγκαῖον it is necessary, δυνατόν it is possible, ἀδύνατον (or ἀδύνατα) it is impossible, αἰσχρόν it is disgraceful, καλόν it is honourable, ὥρα and καιρός it is time. With the last two expressions the old dative use of the infinitive is clear: ὥρα βουλεύεσθαι it is time for considering P. Soph. 241b.
Since the "infinitive was originally a verbal noun in the dative... case" (Smyth §1969), it appears with the neuter article (Smyth §1968.b.) and also with neuter descriptors. It's also logical since it is neither masculine nor feminine in concept. Maybe someone else will be able to provide a better explanation, but this is what I found in Smyth.

Hope it helps!

Jason

Re: Athenaze

Posted: January 1st, 2012, 8:55 pm
by Mark Trzasko
Jason, thanks for your help!

Re: Athenaze

Posted: January 2nd, 2012, 9:29 am
by Mark Trzasko
On page 31 of Athenaze, line 9 has, "Dig the stones and carry out out of the field." Why does Greek have a redundant preposition?

Re: Athenaze

Posted: January 2nd, 2012, 4:32 pm
by Jason Hare
Mark Trzasko wrote:On page 31 of Athenaze, line 9 has, "Dig the stones and carry out out of the field." Why does Greek have a redundant preposition?
Again, it's better if you provide the Greek lines that you're referring to.

In this case:
σκάπτε τοὺς λίθους καὶ ἔκφερε ἐκ τοῦ ἀγροῦ.
Dig the stones and carry [them] out of the field.

You will come to see that prepositions attached to verbs are frequently repeated with their objects. This seems redundant in English, but it isn't really the case in Greek.

In English, the verb "enter" implies the preposition "into." Thus, we say "enter the house" in equivalence to "go in(to) the house." Yet, there are those who might say that someone "entered into the house." This is slightly redundant, but it isn't against the feeling of the sentence.

The same is true in Greek, in which you might say that someone εἰσβαίνει εἰς τὸν οἶκον "enters (into) the house." You shouldn't take it as redundant but as a feature of Greek. It's very common.

Re: Athenaze

Posted: January 2nd, 2012, 8:13 pm
by Mark Trzasko
Thanks Jason. Which program do you use to type out the Greek lettering?

Re: Athenaze

Posted: January 2nd, 2012, 8:35 pm
by Jason Hare
I have Windows 7, and I use the standard Polytonic Greek keyboard layout that comes with the system.