Translation of James 5:11 in Majority Text

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schuhmam
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Joined: April 21st, 2017, 3:53 am

Translation of James 5:11 in Majority Text

Post by schuhmam » April 21st, 2017, 4:15 am

Hello everyone.

I have one question regarding the translation of James 5:11. The past few months I was comparing bible verses regarding the differences between the Byzantine Majority Text and Nestle Aland and Textus Receptus (as far as I was able to recognize differences).
I read James 5:11 where I saw that this specific writing only occurs in this translation. So I was interested how to translate it. I have my problems with that text because I don't understand how to build the correct sentence(s). You might help me there.

http://biblehub.com/text/james/5-11.htm
Ἰδού, μακαρίζομεν τοὺς ὑπομένοντας· τὴν ὑπομονὴν Ἰὼβ ἠκούσατε, καὶ τὸ τέλος κυρίου ἴδετε, ὅτι πολύσπλαγχνός ἐστιν καὶ οἰκτίρμων.

The differences in general are:
  • ὑπομένοντας (MT, TR) instead of ὑπομείναντας (NA) which basicly means it is Participle Present not Aorist (enduring not have endured)
  • ἴδετε (only MT) instead of εἴδετε, like the first word but in Plural (used in 1 John 3:1)
  • ὁ κύριος (only MT) missing at the end
So my question is now how to form the correct sentense and translation.

I was hoping to find help in my monther language (German) but I was not able to find any suitable address to form my question in German so I am happy to find this forum and I give my best to write it in English as best as I can; so there might be some grammar or spelling errors.

Jonathan Robie
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Re: Translation of James 5:11 in Majority Text

Post by Jonathan Robie » April 25th, 2017, 1:16 pm

I see that this is still unanswered - I'm not quite sure that I know what your question is.

Obviously, you have to translate each variant as a whole, not just in terms of the differences, but you seem to know what the individual parts mean. Where do you face difficulty in putting it together?
ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/

schuhmam
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Joined: April 21st, 2017, 3:53 am

Re: Translation of James 5:11 in Majority Text

Post by schuhmam » April 26th, 2017, 9:32 am

Well, hard to explain what but it doesn't makes sense to me. I will just write down the relevant part of the NKJV and exchange the words.

You have heard of the perseverance of Job and behold(!) the end intended by the Lord, that is very compassionate and merciful.

First, I assume that the imperative of to see starts a new sentence. Is this not necessary needed?

Shirley Rollinson
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Re: Translation of James 5:11 in Majority Text

Post by Shirley Rollinson » April 26th, 2017, 3:51 pm

schuhmam wrote:
April 26th, 2017, 9:32 am
Well, hard to explain what but it doesn't makes sense to me. I will just write down the relevant part of the NKJV and exchange the words.

You have heard of the perseverance of Job and behold(!) the end intended by the Lord, that is very compassionate and merciful.

First, I assume that the imperative of to see starts a new sentence. Is this not necessary needed?
ἰδου, ἰδε, and ἰδετε can be used as interjections, with the sense of "pay attention" or "guck mal". They do not necessarily start a new sentence.
Hope this helps,
Shirley Rollinson

Jonathan Robie
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Location: Durham, NC
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Re: Translation of James 5:11 in Majority Text

Post by Jonathan Robie » April 26th, 2017, 4:13 pm

schuhmam wrote:
April 26th, 2017, 9:32 am
Well, hard to explain what but it doesn't makes sense to me. I will just write down the relevant part of the NKJV and exchange the words.

You have heard of the perseverance of Job and behold(!) the end intended by the Lord, that is very compassionate and merciful.

First, I assume that the imperative of to see starts a new sentence. Is this not necessary needed?
I assume you noticed that εἴδετε is aorist indicative - y'all have seen, and only the Robinson-Pierpoint uses the imperative ἴδετε. If we go with εἴδετε, then we have something like this:

Jas.5.11
ἰδοὺ μακαρίζομεν τοὺς ὑπομείναντας·
τὴν ὑπομονὴν Ἰὼβ ἠκούσατε, καὶ τὸ τέλος Κυρίου εἴδετε, ὅτι
πολύσπλαγχνός ἐστιν ὁ Κύριος καὶ οἰκτίρμων.

Let's add some English glosses to Treedown for this sentence (use the right hand scroll bar next to the white area to scroll down to the bottom to see the complete text):

Code: Select all

v ἰδοὺ - Behold,

v μακαρίζομεν - we count blessed
o τοὺς - those
    v.part ὑπομείναντας· - having endured.

    o τὴν ὑπομονὴν Ἰὼβ - The endurance of Job
    v ἠκούσατε, - you have heard of,
καὶ - and 
    o τὸ τέλος Κυρίου - the purpose of the Lord / outcome of the Lord
    v εἴδετε, - you have seen
    ὅτι - that
         p πολύσπλαγχνός - very compassionate
         vc ἐστιν* - is
         s ὁ Κύριος* - the Lord
         p καὶ οἰκτίρμων. - and merciful.
I think πολύσπλαγχνός ἐστιν ὁ Κύριος καὶ οἰκτίρμων has a split constituent, it means the same thing as πολύσπλαγχνός καὶ οἰκτίρμων ἐστιν ὁ Κύριος, where the constituent πολύσπλαγχνός καὶ οἰκτίρμων is split by ἐστιν ὁ Κύριος.

I like the rendering of HCSB here: "See, we count as blessed those who have endured. You have heard of Job’s endurance and have seen the outcome from the Lord. The Lord is very compassionate and merciful".

If you substitute ὑπομένοντας for ὑπομείναντας, the meaning changes to "we count as blessed those who are enduring". If you substitute ἴδετε for εἴδετε, the meaning changes to the imperative - "and see the purpose / outcome of the Lord, that the Lord is compassionate and merciful. If you omit ὁ Κύριος, it changes to "that he is compassionate and merciful" instead of "the Lord is compassionate and merciful".
ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/

schuhmam
Posts: 4
Joined: April 21st, 2017, 3:53 am

Re: Translation of James 5:11 in Majority Text

Post by schuhmam » April 28th, 2017, 2:37 am

Thank you for helping out. I guess I can figure it out.

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