David Lim wrote:
Roy Fredrick wrote:Are we playing a game here or or we earnestly trying to communicate?
As our kind moderators have already said, it is you who did not communicate anything clearly and appropriately. This post of yours is the first I have seen that is written in complete sentences, but as Carl has pointed out, you didn't at the beginning say why you thought the usual translation was incorrect. Also, based on your kind of reasons I can say that your translation has serious "discrepancies" too:
(1) "μετ" does not mean "towards" (LSJ) (2) "had shewed his great mercy" is hardly articulate compared to "was magnifying his mercy" (3) "great mercy" is not in the original text at all (4) "congratulated her" is wrong because "αυτη" is not accusative and hence cannot be the direct object of "συνεχαιρον"
(5) "συνεχαιρον" means "were rejoicing with" (LSJ)
αὐτῇ Because the reflexive pronoun reflects the action back to the subject, it is not itself the subject, but is an an object of the verb
. Please don't be an "I see a weasel." Read the whole thing and present it as it is presented in Henry George Liddell. Robert Scott. A Greek-English Lexicon[/b][/u]
That was NOT my translation, I simply quoted that verse to show that I am not alone with the use of the word συνεχαιρον. Why do you ignore my original post? "Lu 1:58 And her neighbours and her relatives heard how the Lord had magnified her with His mercy, and together they congratulated1 her."
1. συγχαιρών συνεχαιρον congratulated Henry George Liddell. Robert Scott. A Greek-English Lexicon
συνεχαιρον Verb-Imperfect Indictive Active-3rd Person plural
αὐτῇ Personal Possessive pronoun Dative Femine 3rd person Singular the accent on the penult, is the only thing that distinguishes the demonstrative pronoun αὕτη from the third person pronoun αὐτή. Because the reflexive pronoun reflects the action back to the subject, it is not itself the subject, but is an an object of the verb.
The dative case indicates to one or for whom the action occurs.
The accusative case indicates the extent to which an action occurs or the referent about which an assertion is made.
"μετ" A preposition is a word that usually occurs before a noun or a substantive in order to link that word to a preceding term as a modifer, depending on the thought being expressed by the author.
ὅτι is a conjunction, a particle that connects two clauses. NT writers frequently use ὅτι to introduce a clause that serves as the object.
and what we make the subject of the Verb which follows ὅτι freq. stands in the preceding clause,
Terminology ultima, penult, antepenult Only the last three syllables of a word may be accented
acute, grave, circumflex A circumflex may stand only on the last 2 syllables.
A circumflex may stand only on a long syllable. An accented penult will have a circumflex if and only if
the penult is long and the ultima is short.
Special Rule for Verbs
For verbs, the accent is recessive. That is, within the constraints of the general rules, the accent will stand on the syllable closest to the beginning of the word.
For example, in the case of ἀκολουθήσατε, rule #1 prevents the accent from being placed on any of the first three syllables, but because the ultima is short, the accent can come all the way back to the antepenult. Because this is a verb, the accent must come all the way back to the antepenult.
ῥύομαι, ῥύσις ῥύσιoς Att. εως, η, (fr. ῥέω to flow) a flux, runnung; a stream, course
Originally, words were not written with accent marks
. Hegelochus, who in declaiming a line of Euripides ending with γαλήν' ὁρῶ = ("I see a calm") pronounced a circumflex instead of an acute, and sent the audience into roars of laughter: γαλῆν ὁρῶ = "I see a weasel."
In a retrenching effort, Greek grammarians encouraged the writing of the accent mark
. But the
effort succeeded only in retaining a stress on the accented syllable. Distinctions
of pitch between the different accents were lost.
Voice refers to the relationship between subject and verb. In English, it answers the
question, is the subject active or passive with respect to the action?
The dative case indicates to one or for whom and action occurs.
A Grammar of the Greek New Testament, A. T. Robertson
Accents Written accentuation of Greek texts began to occur in the 4th Cent. B.C. but it was not systematically practiced until around 200 B.C.
Accents are not included in the oldest uncial manuscripts of the GNT. The earliest of these to have any accents is the Cambridge manuscript D, dated ib the 6th Cent. A.D.
In the earliest use accents indicated changes in pitch. However, the different accents have come to signify no difference in sound value; they indicate only that one is to stress the accented syllable.
James Hewett in New Testament Greek, A Beginning and Intermediate Grammar.
A Grammar of the Greek New Testament in the Light of Historical Research, A. T. Robertson
Hebrews 6:1 Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God,