Translation of Matthew 28:1

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danielkim
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Joined: March 22nd, 2014, 7:41 am

Translation of Matthew 28:1

Post by danielkim »

Hello everyone.

this is Daniel Kim.

the Questions I have is about the translation on Matthew 28:1.

there are "Sabbaton" in this verse in greek language.

the word "sabbaton" appears two times in this verse. they are perfectly identical.

they are genitive case, plural.

but if you look at the translation, the first Sabbaton has been translated as " sabbath" ,But 2nd sabbaton has been translated as "Week".

the other same cases of "sabbaton" can be found from Mark 16:2, Luke 24:1, John 20:1.
and they all has been translated as " Week".

I think the first Sabbaton in Matthew 28:1 has to be translated as " Week" too.

there is no reason it needs to be " Sabbath".

I think the right translation is as followed.

" In the End of the week, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre."

Biblehub.com <---- Greek Bible Web site.

Please Let me know , if any of you can find any reason it needs to be " Sabbath" instead of "week" in Matthew 28:1

thank you.

Daniel kim
Jonathan Robie
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Re: Translation of Matthew 28:1

Post by Jonathan Robie »

Hi Daniel,

Welcome to B-Greek. First off, you need to quote the Greek text you are discussing:
Matthew 28:1 wrote:Ὀψὲ δὲ σαββάτων, τῇ ἐπιφωσκούσῃ εἰς μίαν σαββάτων, ἦλθεν Μαριὰμ ἡ Μαγδαληνὴ καὶ ἡ ἄλλη Μαρία θεωρῆσαι τὸν τάφον.
The short answer is that the translations are (correctly) looking at the entire phrases, not just at single words. Here are the relevant phrases:

Ὀψὲ δὲ σαββάτων = but late on the Sabbath
εἰς μίαν σαββάτων = moving into the first day of the week, where μία σαββάτων is the Rabbinical way of referring to the first day of the week, Sunday.
ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/
Stephen Hughes
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Joined: February 26th, 2013, 7:12 am

Re: Translation of Matthew 28:1

Post by Stephen Hughes »

If one were to say, "I'm making dinner.", we know that that means the final step in the process is the dinner. The first step in the process is to turn on the kitchen light (=Sunday, the first day of the week), the next step is to arrange the work space, ... and finally, we sit down and enjoy the meal (=Saturday). The whole process is called making "dinner", and the final outcome is "dinner" too.

Think about, "I will be finished with dinner after about an hour."

The last step in the process has the same name as the process.
Γελᾷ δ' ὁ μωρός, κἄν τι μὴ γέλοιον ᾖ
(Menander, Γνῶμαι μονόστιχοι 108)
danielkim
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Joined: March 22nd, 2014, 7:41 am

Re: Translation of Matthew 28:1

Post by danielkim »

Matthew 28:1
Ὀψὲ δὲ σαββάτων = but late on the Sabbath (Right Translation = "In the End of the week")
εἰς μίαν σαββάτων = moving into the first day of the week, where μία σαββάτων is the Rabbinical way of referring to the first day of the week, Sunday.

As you can see the first "Sabbaton" has been translated as "sabbath" in English Bible.

but Second "sabbaton" has been translated as "week"

This is Evidently strange translation. I believe author didn't mean to mention about the sabbath. but he would rather mean ' end of the week'.

Is there any reason if it need to be "sabbath" instead of "week" ?
Stephen Hughes
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Joined: February 26th, 2013, 7:12 am

Week v. Saturday. Ὀψὲas adverb of time of day.

Post by Stephen Hughes »

Greek has the same word for "week" and "Saturday". English has different words for "week" and "Saturday". Where σαββάτων means "week" it is translated as "week", where it means "Saturday" it is translated as "Sabbath".

The adverb Ὀψὲrefers to a time of day, not to a part of the week.

Do you know why it is translated as "Sabbath" instead of "Saturday"?
Γελᾷ δ' ὁ μωρός, κἄν τι μὴ γέλοιον ᾖ
(Menander, Γνῶμαι μονόστιχοι 108)
RandallButh
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Re: Translation of Matthew 28:1

Post by RandallButh »

The normal Greek word for 'week' is ἑβδομάς.

The more meaningful question is the phrase, "as the first day began" τῇ ἐπιφωσκούσῃ εἰς μίαν σαββάτων.
The verb in Mat 28:1 ἐπιφώσκειν is used in Luke 23:54 καὶ σάββατον ἐπέφωσκεν "the Sabbath was "dawning"[i.e., beginning] and refers to the sundown of Friday evening. The beginning of the first day was sundown, Saturday night. In Jewish/Hebrew idiom this beginning was called אור ליום 'light to [day]". See Mishna PesaHim.
Jonathan Robie
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Re: Translation of Matthew 28:1

Post by Jonathan Robie »

danielkim wrote:Matthew 28:1
Ὀψὲ δὲ σαββάτων = but late on the Sabbath (Right Translation = "In the End of the week")
εἰς μίαν σαββάτων = moving into the first day of the week, where μία σαββάτων is the Rabbinical way of referring to the first day of the week, Sunday.

As you can see the first "Sabbaton" has been translated as "sabbath" in English Bible.

but Second "sabbaton" has been translated as "week"

This is Evidently strange translation.
First, let's look the word up in a lexicon. I have BDAG only in paper form, here's the definition from Abbott-Smith:
σάββατον (Abbott-Smith) wrote:σάββατον, -ου, τό (Aram. שַׁבָּתָא, transliterated σάββατα, and this being mistaken for a pl., the sing. σάββατον was formed from it), and σάββατα, -ων, τά [in LXX for שַׁבָּת, שַׁבָּתוֹן ;]
1. the seventh day of the week, the sabbath
(a) the sing. form -ον, τὸ σ.: Mt 12:8, Mk 2:27, Lk 6:5, [p. 400] al.; ἡ ἡμέρα τοῦ σ. (in LXX, Ex 20:8, al., usually τῶν σ., v. infr.), Lk 13:16 14:5; ὁδὸς σαββάτου, Ac 1:12 (cf. Mt 24:29); dat., of time (τῷ) σ., Lk 6:9 14:1; ἐν (τῷ) σ., Mt 12:2, Lk 6:7, Jo 5:16, al.; acc, of duration, τὸ σ., Lk 23:56; κατὰ πᾶν σ., Ac 13:27 15:21 18:4; pl., σ. τρία, Ac 17:2 R, txt. (but v. infr.);
(b) as most freq. in LXX (v. Swete, Mk., 17; Thackeray, Gr., 35) the pl. form, τὰ σ. (v. supr. on the Aram. form. There is also an analogy in the names of other festivals, τ. ἐγκαίνια, ἄζυμα, etc.): Mt 28:1, Col 2:16; ἡ ἡμέρα τῶν σ. (Ex 20:8, al.), Lk 4:16, Ac 13:14 16:13; dat. pl. (in LXX -τοις, but I Mac 2:38 as in NT) by metaplasmus (El., § 9, 3), σάββασι, Mt 12:1, 5 12:10-12 Mk 1:21 2:23 3:2, 4, Lk 4:31 6:2.
2. seven days, a week;
(a) the sing. form: πρώτη σαββάτσυ, Mk 16:9; δὶς τοῦ σ. (Bl., § 35, 4; 36, 13), Lk 18:12; κατὰ μίαν σαββάτου, I Co 16:2; pl., σ. τρία, Ac 17:2 R, mg. (but v. supr.);
(b) the pl. form: ἡ μία τῶν σ. (where the gen. = μετὰ τά; Soph., Lex., 43a), Mt 28:1, Mk 16:2, Lk 24:1, Jo 20:1, 19, Ac 20:7
The word clearly can be used in both ways. Look at the texts cited above for examples. Also note that phrases like πρώτη σαββάτσυ, κατὰ μίαν σαββάτου, and ἡ μία τῶν σ. have meanings like "the first day of the week". Check all the texts cited under definition 2 for examples.

May I suggest that you start under the assumption that the translators know Greek well, and translate the way they do for a reason? You seem to be assuming that one Greek word always translates into the same English word, that's simply not true.
ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/
danielkim
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Joined: March 22nd, 2014, 7:41 am

Re: Translation of Matthew 28:1

Post by danielkim »

Jonathan Robie wrote:
danielkim wrote:Matthew 28:1
Ὀψὲ δὲ σαββάτων = but late on the Sabbath (Right Translation = "In the End of the week")
εἰς μίαν σαββάτων = moving into the first day of the week, where μία σαββάτων is the Rabbinical way of referring to the first day of the week, Sunday.

As you can see the first "Sabbaton" has been translated as "sabbath" in English Bible.

but Second "sabbaton" has been translated as "week"

This is Evidently strange translation.
First, let's look the word up in a lexicon. I have BDAG only in paper form, here's the definition from Abbott-Smith:
σάββατον (Abbott-Smith) wrote:σάββατον, -ου, τό (Aram. שַׁבָּתָא, transliterated σάββατα, and this being mistaken for a pl., the sing. σάββατον was formed from it), and σάββατα, -ων, τά [in LXX for שַׁבָּת, שַׁבָּתוֹן ;]
1. the seventh day of the week, the sabbath
(a) the sing. form -ον, τὸ σ.: Mt 12:8, Mk 2:27, Lk 6:5, [p. 400] al.; ἡ ἡμέρα τοῦ σ. (in LXX, Ex 20:8, al., usually τῶν σ., v. infr.), Lk 13:16 14:5; ὁδὸς σαββάτου, Ac 1:12 (cf. Mt 24:29); dat., of time (τῷ) σ., Lk 6:9 14:1; ἐν (τῷ) σ., Mt 12:2, Lk 6:7, Jo 5:16, al.; acc, of duration, τὸ σ., Lk 23:56; κατὰ πᾶν σ., Ac 13:27 15:21 18:4; pl., σ. τρία, Ac 17:2 R, txt. (but v. infr.);
(b) as most freq. in LXX (v. Swete, Mk., 17; Thackeray, Gr., 35) the pl. form, τὰ σ. (v. supr. on the Aram. form. There is also an analogy in the names of other festivals, τ. ἐγκαίνια, ἄζυμα, etc.): Mt 28:1, Col 2:16; ἡ ἡμέρα τῶν σ. (Ex 20:8, al.), Lk 4:16, Ac 13:14 16:13; dat. pl. (in LXX -τοις, but I Mac 2:38 as in NT) by metaplasmus (El., § 9, 3), σάββασι, Mt 12:1, 5 12:10-12 Mk 1:21 2:23 3:2, 4, Lk 4:31 6:2.
2. seven days, a week;
(a) the sing. form: πρώτη σαββάτσυ, Mk 16:9; δὶς τοῦ σ. (Bl., § 35, 4; 36, 13), Lk 18:12; κατὰ μίαν σαββάτου, I Co 16:2; pl., σ. τρία, Ac 17:2 R, mg. (but v. supr.);
(b) the pl. form: ἡ μία τῶν σ. (where the gen. = μετὰ τά; Soph., Lex., 43a), Mt 28:1, Mk 16:2, Lk 24:1, Jo 20:1, 19, Ac 20:7
The word clearly can be used in both ways. Look at the texts cited above for examples. Also note that phrases like πρώτη σαββάτσυ, κατὰ μίαν σαββάτου, and ἡ μία τῶν σ. have meanings like "the first day of the week". Check all the texts cited under definition 2 for examples.

May I suggest that you start under the assumption that the translators know Greek well, and translate the way they do for a reason? You seem to be assuming that one Greek word always translates into the same English word, that's simply not true.
I understand what you says. But when it is plural, genetive case, they were all translated as "week".

and how come we have to have exception in Matthew 28:1. It simply looks to me in "lack of Consistency"

what do you think?
Jonathan Robie
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Re: Translation of Matthew 28:1

Post by Jonathan Robie »

danielkim wrote:I understand what you says. But when it is plural, genetive case, they were all translated as "week".
I think the examples you are thinking of are the ones cited in 2b in Abbott-Smith?
(b) the pl. form: ἡ μία τῶν σ. (where the gen. = μετὰ τά; Soph., Lex., 43a), Mt 28:1, Mk 16:2, Lk 24:1, Jo 20:1, 19, Ac 20:7
The genitive plural is only part of the construction. The complete construction used to convey this meaning in these passages is ἡ μία τῶν σαββάτων. Ὀψὲ δὲ σαββάτων does not use this construction, and does not have this meaning.
ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/
danielkim
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Joined: March 22nd, 2014, 7:41 am

Re: Translation of Matthew 28:1

Post by danielkim »

I found that the "Interlinear Bible" has translated Matthew 28:1 in the way I think right.

The Interlinear Bble. Hebrew Greek English.
Jay P. Green,Sr. General Edton and Translator
Hendrickson publishers 2011 Edition.
printed in united states of America

"late in but the week, at the dawning into the first day of the week....."

personally, I still believe both sabbaton in matthew 28:1 are referring to "week".

It makes more sence having same meaning in one verse on same identical words.

please let me know if anybody has other comments.
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