εὐδόκησα in Matthew 3:17

How do I work out the meaning of a Greek text? How can I best understand the forms and vocabulary in this particular text?
Forum rules
This is a beginner's forum - see the Koine Greek forum for more advanced discussion of Greek texts. Please quote the Greek text you are discussing directly in your post if it is reasonably short - do not ask people to look it up.

When answering questions in this forum, keep it simple, and aim your responses to the level of the person asking the question.
Mitch Tulloch
Posts: 59
Joined: November 4th, 2017, 2:52 pm
Location: Winnipeg, Canada
Contact:

Re: εὐδόκησα in Matthew 3:17

Post by Mitch Tulloch »

Thanks Eeli, but my thinking is that gaining some broader perspective (Classical Greek) will eventually help me understand Koine better. And I'd like to eventually at least dip my toes into a little bit of Homer, Herodotus, the Greek Anthology, etc.

By the way, I've already gained some benefit from starting to read the Cambridge Grammer, for example understanding how many morphological differences in principle parts of verbs and peculiarities of certain noun endings arise from historical vocalization changes (loss/assimilation of vowels, disappearing consonants, etc) or from analogy (copying patterns of other verbs/nouns) and knowing stuff like this seems to help me learn verb/nominal endings/patterns better. And having read the first chapter, I now understand phonetic terminology a little better (though I follow the Koine pronunciation rules when I read the GNT/LXX to myself) and also terms like crasis, elision, ablaut etc which previously weren't clear in my understanding.

On the other hand, some of the stuff in the first chapter just went "whoosh!" over my head :-)

But so far the book has been fun reading, and I guess that's the bottom line when it comes to staying motivated to learn, isn't it? Anyways, my plan is to read through the entire book over the next 3-4 months (sehr optimistitch!) and simply absorb what I can and not worry about the rest. Then I hope to circle back on specific topics as they interest me (e.g. aorist) and use this book and perhaps some other resources to try and understand more deeply, especially as it relates to Koine.

Finally, your comment about the Hebrew perfect opens up a whole new avenue of exploration for me, but having tried (and given up) learning Biblical Hebrew many years ago, I unfortunately don't plan on heading down that path again. But much appreciate your comment anyways :-)
Cheers,
Mitch Tulloch
Devenios Doulenios
Posts: 230
Joined: May 31st, 2011, 5:11 pm
Location: Carlisle, Arkansas, USA
Contact:

Re: εὐδόκησα in Matthew 3:17

Post by Devenios Doulenios »

It might seem counter-intuitive, Mitch, but learning Hebrew will also help you with your Greek, particularly the Koine of the Greek Bible. I have experienced this first hand when working with both languages, particularly when working with the LXX. Also this was the case when learning to understand some NT Greek expressions.

I'd be interested in learning why you gave Hebrew up (PM me if you like). Perhaps I can offer you some encouragement in starting up again. There are tons of resources available to help you, and I reference some of them on my blog's Resources page.
Dewayne Dulaney
Δεβένιος Δουλένιος

Blog: https://letancientvoicesspeak.wordpress.com/

"Ὁδοὶ δύο εἰσί, μία τῆς ζωῆς καὶ μία τοῦ θανάτου."--Διδαχή Α, α'
Mitch Tulloch
Posts: 59
Joined: November 4th, 2017, 2:52 pm
Location: Winnipeg, Canada
Contact:

Re: εὐδόκησα in Matthew 3:17

Post by Mitch Tulloch »

Eeli:

Don't know how to DM people on this discussion board so will reply here. I tried using Handbook of Biblical Hebrew: An Inductive Approach Based on the Hebrew Text of Esther (https://www.amazon.com/Handbook-Biblica ... 0802804446) many years ago but gave up after slogging about 1/4 way through the book. I found the inductive approach didn't fit my learning style (e.g. I love the approach the Cambridge Grammar of Classical Greek uses) and I was also disincentivised because the Book of Esther doesn't really interest me, would have preferred Genesis, Deut, Isaiah or Psalms.

And I do see the value of learning Hebrew for LXX studies, but my main problem is lack of time/energy as I'll be turning 70 next year, so I have to prioritize carefully. My main priorities right now with respect to learning Greek are (1) devotional reading using GNT/LXX (2) exegetical studies for a series of books I'm writing for the Vineyard churches and (3) having fun, and not necessarily in that order :-)
Cheers,
Mitch Tulloch
Mitch Tulloch
Posts: 59
Joined: November 4th, 2017, 2:52 pm
Location: Winnipeg, Canada
Contact:

Re: εὐδόκησα in Matthew 3:17

Post by Mitch Tulloch »

Oops sorry my last reply was directed to Devenios not Eeli.
Cheers,
Mitch Tulloch
Eeli Kaikkonen
Posts: 611
Joined: June 2nd, 2011, 7:49 am
Location: Finland
Contact:

Re: εὐδόκησα in Matthew 3:17

Post by Eeli Kaikkonen »

Mitch Tulloch wrote: August 2nd, 2023, 12:47 pm Thanks Eeli, but my thinking is that gaining some broader perspective (Classical Greek) will eventually help me understand Koine better.
There's no need for the "but" there because most probably everyone writing in this forum agrees with you, including me. I didn't mean it's of no use, on the contrary; it just doesn't necessarily offer any details which would help with this use of the aorist.

In any case, it's certainly better to gain wider understanding and try to build up an intuition to see why some grammatical form is used, rather than to try to find an answer by deciding which category something belongs to based on expert opinions. Existing basic categories + understanding the basic semantics of the forms and the words can be used with some imagination to find out that solutions to many puzzles lay outside rigid categorization. Real human language is fluid, it doesn't obey our rules. Unfortunately many exegetes, theologians and laypeople want to force "parole" into sharply divided categories.
Devenios Doulenios
Posts: 230
Joined: May 31st, 2011, 5:11 pm
Location: Carlisle, Arkansas, USA
Contact:

Re: εὐδόκησα in Matthew 3:17

Post by Devenios Doulenios »

Mitch,

Will send you a PM re Hebrew here this weekend, probably tomorrow.

There are a couple of ways to send PMs here on the forum.

1. If you are logged in, at the top right of the forum window, you'll see your username. Click on that and you'll see User Control Panel (link). Click on that and it will take you to a window where you can send messages.

2. Or you can look at the right sidebar of a particular post. You'll see the poster's name, and then a Contact link (conversation bubble emoji/icon).
Dewayne Dulaney
Δεβένιος Δουλένιος

Blog: https://letancientvoicesspeak.wordpress.com/

"Ὁδοὶ δύο εἰσί, μία τῆς ζωῆς καὶ μία τοῦ θανάτου."--Διδαχή Α, α'
Jason Hare
Posts: 951
Joined: June 2nd, 2011, 5:28 pm
Location: Tel Aviv, Israel
Contact:

Re: εὐδόκησα in Matthew 3:17

Post by Jason Hare »

Eeli Kaikkonen wrote: August 2nd, 2023, 11:53 am "it is possible, however, to interpret the indicative aorist forms not in terms of the gnomic (indicative) aorist but as overly literal renderings of the Biblical Hebrew "perfect" in its timeless use".
This would seem to have merit in my opinion.
Jason A. Hare
The Hebrew Café
Tel Aviv, Israel
Post Reply

Return to “What does this text mean?”