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Why does apeiros take genitive

Posted: September 15th, 2019, 2:07 pm
by davidwalucy@yahoo.com
Greetings,

I am wondering why apeiros takes the genitive of a thing. What kind of genitive is it, objective?

Intuitively I would have thought it would take the locative/dative because I thought the semantics would be unskilled in a specific realm or sphere. Thus the dative sematics would make more sense to be than the genitive.

Thank You,
David

Re: Why does apeiros take genitive

Posted: September 15th, 2019, 6:50 pm
by Stirling Bartholomew
Best to try looking at samples before making judgements about semantics.
Joannes Chrysostomus Sermons on Acts of the Apostles
Ὁ τοιοῦτος καὶ δυνήσεται
γενέσθαι βασιλεὺς, καὶ πάντα τὸν κόσμον λαβεῖν, καὶ ἐν
τιμῇ εἶναι μεγίστῃ· ὁ ταύτην πλέων τὴν θάλασσαν οὐ-
δέποτε ναυάγιον ὑποστήσεται, ἀλλὰ πάντα εἴσεται καλῶς.
Ἀλλ' ὥσπερ οἱ ταύτης ἄπειροι τῆς θαλάσσης ἀποπνίγον-
ται, οὕτω δὴ καὶ ἐνταῦθα
· ὅπερ δὴ πάσχουσι καὶ αἱρετι-
κοὶ τοῖς ὑπὲρ δύναμιν ἐγχειροῦντες.
Lots of genitives in LSJ
ἄπειρος (A), ον, (πεῖρα)
without trial or experience of a thing, unused to, unacquainted with, ἄθλων Thgn.1013; καλῶν Pi.I.8(7).70; κακότητος Emp.112.3; τυράννων Hdt.5.92.ά; τῆς ναυτικῆς Id.8.1; Περσέων Id.9.58, cf. 46; πόνων, νόσων, A.Ch.371, Fr.350.2; γνώμης S. Ant.1250; δικῶν Antipho 1.1; πολέμων Th.1.141; τοῦ μεγέθους τῆς νήσου Id.6.1; γραμμάτων Pl.Ap.26d; ἀνδρῶν ἀγαθῶν Lys.2.27; of a woman, ἄ. ἄλλων ἀνδρῶν not having known other men (beside her husband), Hdt.2.111; ἄ. λέχους E.Med.672: abs. in same sense, ib. 1091 (lyr.).
abs., inexperienced, ignorant, Pi.I.8(7).48, etc.; γλυκὺ δ' ἀπείροισι πόλεμος Id.Fr.110; δίδασκ' ἄπειρον A.Ch.118. Adv. ἀπείρως, ἔχειν τῶν νόμων Hdt.2.45; πρός τι X.Mem.2.6.29; περί τινος Isoc.5.19: Comp.ἀπειρότερον, παρεσκευασμένοι Th.1.49; -οτέρως Isoc.12.37, Arist.Resp.470b9.

Re: Why does apeiros take genitive

Posted: September 16th, 2019, 1:17 am
by davidwalucy@yahoo.com
Hello Stirling Bartholomew and all,

Thank you. Perhaps I was not being clear. I was not making judgments, but just stating what my intuition led me to. I know it is correct to use the genitive. I am just wondering what kind of genitive it is, such as genitive of reference, ablative, etc. and the underlying semantics for the choice.

I made a type I my first post I meant "...more sense to me than the genitive."

Best Regards,
David

Re: Why does apeiros take genitive

Posted: September 16th, 2019, 9:04 am
by Barry Hofstetter
davidwalucy@yahoo.com wrote:
September 16th, 2019, 1:17 am
Hello Stirling Bartholomew and all,

Thank you. Perhaps I was not being clear. I was not making judgments, but just stating what my intuition led me to. I know it is correct to use the genitive. I am just wondering what kind of genitive it is, such as genitive of reference, ablative, etc. and the underlying semantics for the choice.

I made a type I my first post I meant "...more sense to me than the genitive."

Best Regards,
David
Well, essentially it's the genitive with ἄπειρος... :lol:

But, if forced to classify it, I would take it as a type of objective genitive. Think of the adjective here as having verbal force, then what would be the object? It would be what you don't have experience in. Note by the way that we use a preposition for the constructions we tend to use in English to translate it, "I have no experience in..." The genitive has that same type of adverbial force, but is still the functional equivalent of an object.