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Re: Verb aspect debate outside of Koine

Posted: September 7th, 2022, 1:48 pm
by mikeatnip
Well, I DO have the GNT SBL text on Logos. Not sure how I missed it before. I recently started using both Accordance and Logos so get confused what I have and do not have with each software. I will play around with that markup; I am sure it will be useful.

Re: Verb aspect debate outside of Koine

Posted: September 7th, 2022, 3:16 pm
by Jonathan Robie
mikeatnip wrote: September 7th, 2022, 1:14 pm My earlier critique about over-zealous linguistic analysis has to do with my life experiences. We lived five years in rural Bolivia, where I rarely heard the Spanish subjunctive used, as well as other "barbarisms." That is just the way people talked there, and they needed no subjunctives to get their point made. Near me is an Amish community where English is a second language. You hear "I seen a deer yesterday" and similar expressions. After being around that misused "seen" tense, I find myself saying it even though I know better. I have also done some low-grade editing and copy editing for people who are less-than-desired educated in English, which makes me realize how "butchered" our Koine English is.
But you understand all of those kinds of Spanish and English. And linguists have probably analyzed these dialects, too, they don't just look at the King's English. For instance:

https://ideaexchange.uakron.edu/cgi/vie ... ishstudies

In general, linguists do look at real language used by real people. They aren't prescriptive grammarians.

Re: Verb aspect debate outside of Koine

Posted: September 7th, 2022, 6:44 pm
by mikeatnip
Jonathan Robie wrote: September 6th, 2022, 9:41 am
But try this exercise: print out a text in Greek (or use a word processor if you prefer). Color each verb according to aspect. Use a different indicator to distinguish primary tenses (perhaps a ⌋) from secondary tenses (perhaps a ⌞). Use another indicator to indicate indicative. (If you are good at .css and have an XML or HTML text with morphology you can automate this.)

Try doing this with narrative. Note how the aorists show the passage of time in a past event. Note how the imperfections (imperfect, historical present) are used to "look around" the scene. Find the main verbs and see how other verbs relate to it in aspect and in time. No need to use fancy linguistics for this. Reading sensitively will help you get a feel for this.
Using Steve's markup I see what you are saying and the general "rule" of aorist carrying the narrative makes sense and fits. I will continue to tinker with the tool and the text. Thank you for the suggestion on how to get a mental overview of things.
I do still squiggle up my eyebrows at (for example, pages ~346-350 in The Greek Verb Revisited) what appears to be an overly zealous inspection of the tree trunks and the bark patterns, so much so that we "miss the forest for the trees." Ayyy! Maybe I am just not cut out to be a linguist! :-)