Do the trees explain word order?
Posted: March 23rd, 2015, 12:47 am
Do the syntax trees contain information about the syntax of various sentence types and their word order?
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https://www.ibiblio.org:443/bgreek/forum/viewtopic.php?f=57&t=3019
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<wg nodeId="410030100020120" class="cl" role="s">
<w morphId="41003010002" class="conj" lemma="γάρ" discontinuous="true">γὰρ</w>
<wg nodeId="410030100010110" class="cl">
<w morphId="41003010001" class="adj" role="o" lemma="πολύς" case="accusative"
gender="masculine"
number="plural">πολλοὺς</w>
<w morphId="41003010003" class="verb" role="v" head="true" lemma="θεραπεύω"
person="third"
number="singular"
tense="aorist"
voice="active"
mood="indicative">ἐθεράπευσεν</w>
<pu>,</pu>
Constituents within clauses can contain labels for 's' (subject), 'v' (verb), 'vc' (verb complement), 'o', 'o2' (objects), 'io' (indirect object), 'p' (predicate), 'adv' (adverbial clause). The order of these constituents is generally preserved in the trees (and the discontinuous attribute identifies the places where it is not). Micheal Palmer and I are using this in the work we are doing this year, trying to systematically generate examples that illustrate how the Greek verb works for the purpose of language instruction.Stephen Hughes wrote:Do the syntax trees contain information about the syntax of various sentence types and their word order?
Let me raise you. That infotmation is derived from the accidence and is not syntax per se. I look at these trees and see grammar relationships strangely explained in situ. The paper I gave you in the airport with the dependencies of various elements. That "takes a genitive" etc. is half of syntax. The other half is what I call the balances which I've mentioned from time to time. I don't find syntax explained in the trees.Jonathan Robie wrote:Constituents within clauses can contain labels for 's' (subject), 'v' (verb), 'vc' (verb complement), 'o', 'o2' (objects), 'io' (indirect object), 'p' (predicate), 'adv' (adverbial clause). The order of these constituents is generally preserved in the trees (and the discontinuous attribute identifies the places where it is not). Micheal Palmer and I are using this in the work we are doing this year, trying to systematically generate examples that illustrate how the Greek verb works for the purpose of language instruction.Stephen Hughes wrote:Do the syntax trees contain information about the syntax of various sentence types and their word order?
So if I understand your question, the answer is "yes".
These labels go beyond "takes a genitive", they identify the role of the various parts of a clause with respect to a verb, and they involve human judgement.Stephen Hughes wrote:That "takes a genitive" etc. is half of syntax. The other half is what I call the balances which I've mentioned from time to time. I don't find syntax explained in the trees.
Ah, now I understand, and I agree. On the other hand, treebanks might be helpful to someone doing the kind of research needed to answer these questions.MAubrey wrote:Do the tree give a motivation for why the linear ordering of Greek constituents is what it is?
The answer to that question is 'No.'
!!! SNIP !!!
No current treebanks account for these concepts. It isn't even really clear if it is possible for such trees to account for this stuff.
Looks like you would prefer dependency tree instead of constituency trees. Other treebanks do the former, e.g. PROIEL.Stephen Hughes wrote:Let me raise you. That infotmation is derived from the accidence and is not syntax per se. I look at these trees and see grammar relationships strangely explained in situ. The paper I gave you in the airport with the dependencies of various elements. That "takes a genitive" etc. is half of syntax. The other half is what I call the balances which I've mentioned from time to time. I don't find syntax explained in the trees.