Matt. 26:18 - πρὸς σὲ and μετὰ τῶν μαθητῶν μου

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Mike Baber
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Matt. 26:18 - πρὸς σὲ and μετὰ τῶν μαθητῶν μου

Post by Mike Baber » January 17th, 2014, 4:44 am

ὁ δὲ εἶπεν Ὑπάγετε εἰς τὴν πόλιν πρὸς τὸν δεῖνα καὶ εἴπατε αὐτῷ Ὁ διδάσκαλος λέγει Ὁ καιρός μου ἐγγύς ἐστιν πρὸς σὲ ποιῶ τὸ πάσχα μετὰ τῶν μαθητῶν μου

My questions concerns the phrase πρὸς σὲ ποιῶ τὸ πάσχα μετὰ τῶν μαθητῶν μου. What is the meaning of πρὸς and μετὰ here? It doesn't seem like they both can be translated as "with," or can they?
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cwconrad
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Re: Matt. 26:18 - πρὸς σὲ and μετὰ τῶν μαθητῶν μου

Post by cwconrad » January 17th, 2014, 5:53 am

Mike Baber wrote:ὁ δὲ εἶπεν Ὑπάγετε εἰς τὴν πόλιν πρὸς τὸν δεῖνα καὶ εἴπατε αὐτῷ Ὁ διδάσκαλος λέγει Ὁ καιρός μου ἐγγύς ἐστιν πρὸς σὲ ποιῶ τὸ πάσχα μετὰ τῶν μαθητῶν μου

My questions concerns the phrase πρὸς σὲ ποιῶ τὸ πάσχα μετὰ τῶν μαθητῶν μου. What is the meaning of πρὸς and μετὰ here? It doesn't seem like they both can be translated as "with," or can they?
πρὸς σὲ with ποιῶ τὸ πάσχα means "I'm celebrating Passover at your place; here πρὸς + acc. functions like Latin apud, French chez, or German bei in the sense of "in your presence" or "at your place."
μετὰ τῶν μαθητῶν μου with ποιῶ τὸ πάσχα means "I am celebrating Passover with my disciples" -- "in company with my disciples."
If you want the woodenliy literal version, it's "I'm doing Passover by you with my disciples."
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οὔτοι ἀπ’ ἀρχῆς πάντα θεοὶ θνητοῖς ὑπέδειξαν,
ἀλλὰ χρόνῳ ζητέοντες ἐφευρίσκουσιν ἄμεινον. (Xenophanes, Fragment 16)

Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)

Mike Baber
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Joined: May 30th, 2011, 11:25 pm
Location: Texas

Re: Matt. 26:18 - πρὸς σὲ and μετὰ τῶν μαθητῶν μου

Post by Mike Baber » January 17th, 2014, 6:00 am

Thanks Carl. :)
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Stephen Hughes
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Re: Matt. 26:18 - πρὸς σὲ and μετὰ τῶν μαθητῶν μου

Post by Stephen Hughes » January 17th, 2014, 8:25 am

cwconrad wrote:πρὸς σὲ with ποιῶ τὸ πάσχα means "I'm celebrating Passover at your place; here πρὸς + acc. functions like Latin apud, French chez, or German bei in the sense of "in your presence" or "at your place."
μετὰ τῶν μαθητῶν μου with ποιῶ τὸ πάσχα means "I am celebrating Passover with my disciples" -- "in company with my disciples."
Is there enough in the πρός for us to know who was supplying the food? Is it more accurately:
  • "I'll be joining you for Pascha with my disciples." or
    "I'll need a room at your place to hold Pascha with my disciples."
?
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Γελᾷ δ' ὁ μωρός, κἄν τι μὴ γέλοιον ᾖ
(Menander, Γνῶμαι μονόστιχοι 108)

George F Somsel
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Re: Matt. 26:18 - πρὸς σὲ and μετὰ τῶν μαθητῶν μου

Post by George F Somsel » January 18th, 2014, 12:22 pm

Stephen Hughs wrote:
Is there enough in the πρός for us to know who was supplying the food? Is it more accurately: "I'll be joining you for Pascha with my disciples." or
"I'll need a room at your place to hold Pascha with my disciples."
I think it means "You will prepare the food, serve the tables and clean up afterward."

Seriously though, I don't think there is any particular indication though I don't think Tupperware had yet been invented so I doubt that a pot luck dinner was envisioned. Probably the host would prepare the meal as well as providing the facilities for the dinner, but that isn't something you're going to get from the language of the passage
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george
gfsomsel



… search for truth, hear truth,
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