Word order Luke 1:65 Καὶ ἐγένετο ἐπὶ πάντας φόβος τοὺς περιοικο

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Stephen Hughes
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Word order Luke 1:65 Καὶ ἐγένετο ἐπὶ πάντας φόβος τοὺς περιοικο

Post by Stephen Hughes »

Luke 1:65 wrote:Καὶ ἐγένετο ἐπὶ πάντας φόβος τοὺς περιοικοῦντας αὐτούς·
Reading this phrase leaves me wondering whether this is a similar or different phenomenon?
Luke 4:36 wrote:Καὶ ἐγένετο θάμβος ἐπὶ πάντας,
This seems to be the more "normal" order for introducing things
Luke 23:44 wrote:καὶ σκότος ἐγένετο ἐφ’ ὅλην τὴν γῆν...
Acts 5:5 wrote:καὶ ἐγένετο φόβος μέγας ἐπὶ πάντας τοὺς ἀκούοντας ταῦτα.
Acts 5:11 wrote:Καὶ ἐγένετο φόβος μέγας ἐφ’ ὅλην τὴν ἐκκλησίαν, καὶ ἐπὶ πάντας τοὺς ἀκούοντας ταῦτα.
These are very similar to Luke 1:65, but here neither the σκότος has not been put between the ἐφ’ ὅλην and the τὴν γῆν, nor the φόβος μέγας between the ἐπὶ πάντας and the τοὺς ἀκούοντας ταῦτα.
Luke 9:35 wrote:Καὶ φωνὴ ἐγένετο ἐκ τῆς νεφέλης, λέγουσα,
Here the φωνὴ is separated from the λέγουσα by a prepositional phrase, but it is not breaking the prepositional phrase.

What is actually happening in Luke 1:65?

Is the φόβος being placed between the ἐπὶ πάντας and τοὺς περιοικοῦντας αὐτούς in a balance sentence (before and after being equal, but it's verb is required to be at the front, i.e. with another verb it would be like could perhaps happen with φόβος ἐπέπεσεν (cf. Luke & Acts 19:17) to give ἐπὶ πάντας φόβος ἐπέπεσεν τοὺς περιοικοῦντας αὐτούς*, but that seems strange in that it breaks a prepositional phrase! OR is the ἐπὶ πάντας being placed forward in the order for some purpose?
Γελᾷ δ' ὁ μωρός, κἄν τι μὴ γέλοιον ᾖ
(Menander, Γνῶμαι μονόστιχοι 108)
Stephen Carlson
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Re: Word order Luke 1:65 Καὶ ἐγένετο ἐπὶ πάντας φόβος τοὺς π

Post by Stephen Carlson »

Stephen Hughes wrote:
Luke 1:65 wrote:Καὶ ἐγένετο ἐπὶ πάντας φόβος τοὺς περιοικοῦντας αὐτούς·
Reading this phrase leaves me wondering whether this is a similar or different phenomenon?

What is actually happening in Luke 1:65?

Is the φόβος being placed between the ἐπὶ πάντας and τοὺς περιοικοῦντας αὐτούς in a balance sentence (before and after being equal, but it's verb is required to be at the front, i.e. with another verb it would be like could perhaps happen with φόβος ἐπέπεσεν (cf. Luke & Acts 19:17) to give ἐπὶ πάντας φόβος ἐπέπεσεν τοὺς περιοικοῦντας αὐτούς*, but that seems strange in that it breaks a prepositional phrase! OR is the ἐπὶ πάντας being placed forward in the order for some purpose?
Interesting hyperbaton. I would prefer to go with your last alternative, and suggest that it is the fronting of ἐπὶ πάντας to a focus position for emphasis. I'm not ordinarily happy with post-verbal foci (since the focus position is usually pre-verbal), but here καὶ ἐγένετο looks like it has its pre-focal position as a kind of discourse marker.
Stephen C. Carlson, Ph.D.
Melbourne, Australia
RandallButh
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Re: Word order Luke 1:65 Καὶ ἐγένετο ἐπὶ πάντας φόβος τοὺς π

Post by RandallButh »

Stephen, your instincts about not wanting a post-verbal focus seem better.

Read in context I see several things happening.
First of all, the επι παντας is not more salient than φοβος. The strongest meaning-bearing constituent is the "fear".
Secondly, in parallel, the point of the sentence does not seem to be interested in "on all of them". Everyone had already been stipulated in verse 63. So verse 65 is probably not focusing on "all" but using "all" as a tracking device (a demoted contextualization/topicalization). Perhaps compare Isaiah 30:25 for a potential exception. But can the quiet spot ever be used for Focus?
Thirdly, the addition of "those around" after "fear" is possible in Greek (much less so Hebrew*) and provides a kind of afterthought preparation ("appositive") for the sentence that will follow. The neighbors led to the story in the whole district.

So bottom line: I read "on all" as "not-focus" and "assumed information". This is a PRAGMATIC positioning, of course, since επι παντας is much too long and heavy for an enclitic rule to camouflage it.

*In Hebrew I would say ויפל על כל השכנים פחד or backtranslating ויהי על כל השכנים יראה גדולה (vayehi does not need to show concord with 'fear' but is a dummy-subject word), or most simply ויראו כל השכנים.
Stephen Carlson
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Re: Word order Luke 1:65 Καὶ ἐγένετο ἐπὶ πάντας φόβος τοὺς π

Post by Stephen Carlson »

Thanks for that, Randy. I overlooked the reference to "all" in v.63. As a given element, then, it comfortably fits after the verb and the heavy participial clause is shift/dislocated to the right, for afterthought/elaboration. No need for a post-verbal focus after all. Thanks.
Stephen C. Carlson, Ph.D.
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Stirling Bartholomew
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Re: Word order Luke 1:65 Καὶ ἐγένετο ἐπὶ πάντας φόβος τοὺς π

Post by Stirling Bartholomew »

על כל השכנים יראה גדולה (vayehi does not need to show concord with 'fear' but is a dummy-subject word)
Narrative clause initial Καὶ ἐγένετο is found in Matt, Mk, Luke, Acts and Revelation. It appears in the LXX hundreds of times. I went looking for a genuine example in Attic Narrative. Not sure if this qualifies:

Thucydides 2.77.4
ἐμβαλόντες δὲ πῦρ ξὺν
θείῳ καὶ πίσσῃ ἧψαν τὴν ὕλην. καὶ ἐγένετο φλὸξ τοσαύτη
ὅσην οὐδείς πω ἔς γε ἐκεῖνον τὸν χρόνον χειροποίητον
εἶδεν· ἤδη γὰρ ἐν ὄρεσιν ὕλη τριφθεῖσα ὑπ' ἀνέμων πρὸς
αὑτὴν ἀπὸ ταὐτομάτου πῦρ καὶ φλόγα ἀπ' αὐτοῦ ἀνῆκεν.


and then lighted the wood by setting fire to it with sulphur and pitch. The consequence was a fire greater than any one had ever yet seen produced by human agency, though it could not of course be compared to the spontaneous conflagrations sometimes known to occur through the wind rubbing the branches of a mountain forest together.

Translation: Richard Crawley.
Gen. 1:13 ויהי־ערב ויהי־בקר יום שׁלישׁי Gen. 1:13 καὶ ἐγένετο ἑσπέρα καὶ ἐγένετο πρωί, ἡμέρα τρίτη.
C. Stirling Bartholomew
RandallButh
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Re: Word order Luke 1:65 Καὶ ἐγένετο ἐπὶ πάντας φόβος τοὺς π

Post by RandallButh »

Clay,
the distinctive structure to look for is the "indefinite subject"/"dummy-subject" (kai) egeneto (de). that is the one that doesn't occur in Greek.
egeneto + subject occurs both in Greek just like ויהי+subject also occurs in Hebrew.
Stephen Hughes
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Re: Word order Luke 1:65 Καὶ ἐγένετο ἐπὶ πάντας φόβος τοὺς π

Post by Stephen Hughes »

RandallButh wrote:[ἐγένετο standing for] ויהי (vayehi does not need to show concord with [φόβος] 'fear' but is a dummy-subject word
Is a dummy subject word something like, "And what happened next was..."? In other words, does ἐγένετο being a subject mean that there would be an understood verb like ἐπέπεσεν to match the ἐπὶ πάντας, rather than the "gripped", "took hold of" construstion (collocation) as in Luke 7:16 (Ἔλαβεν δὲ φόβος πάντας,).

[Off-topic a little, if a distinction is made between δέχεσθαι "to receive" (with palms up - the impetus or will not coming from the receiver - I think it is sometimes better English to render δέχεσθαι as something like "somebody handed him") and λαμβάνειν "to receive" (with fingers out or down and bending to take hold - the impetus or will coming from the acquirer), then there is not much difference between the two "fear" idioms Ἔλαβεν δὲ φόβος πάντας (Luke 7:16) and καὶ ἐπέπεσεν φόβος ἐπὶ πάντας αὐτούς (Acts 19:17). (i.e. not much difference between "fell upon" like a hand coming down to grasp and "grasp" like with a hand which was palm-down, fingers down-stretched ready to take).]
Γελᾷ δ' ὁ μωρός, κἄν τι μὴ γέλοιον ᾖ
(Menander, Γνῶμαι μονόστιχοι 108)
Stirling Bartholomew
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Re: Word order Luke 1:65 Καὶ ἐγένετο ἐπὶ πάντας φόβος τοὺς π

Post by Stirling Bartholomew »

RandallButh wrote:Clay,
the distinctive structure to look for is the "indefinite subject"/"dummy-subject" (kai) egeneto (de). that is the one that doesn't occur in Greek.
egeneto + subject occurs both in Greek just like ויהי+subject also occurs in Hebrew.
Randal,

This looks like an example of egeneto + subject. Luke 1:65 Καὶ ἐγένετο ἐπὶ πάντας φόβος τοὺς περιοικο

Perhaps this is an an example of egeneto + subject

Rev 8:8 καὶ ἐγένετο τὸ τρίτον τῆς θαλάσσης αἷμα

What about this? War in heaven happened. Impersonal or πόλεμος ἐν τῷ οὐρανῷ subject?

Rev. 12:7 Καὶ ἐγένετο πόλεμος ἐν τῷ οὐρανῷ, ὁ Μιχαὴλ καὶ οἱ ἄγγελοι αὐτοῦ τοῦ πολεμῆσαι μετὰ τοῦ δράκοντος. καὶ ὁ δράκων ἐπολέμησεν καὶ οἱ ἄγγελοι αὐτοῦ,
C. Stirling Bartholomew
RandallButh
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Re: Word order Luke 1:65 Καὶ ἐγένετο ἐπὶ πάντας φόβος τοὺς π

Post by RandallButh »

Yes. egeneto fobos, fobos is a subject in Greek.
There is a difference between Greek and Hebrew.
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