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nauthenticity of ἐλθέτω τὸ πνεῦμα σου τὸ ἅγιον ἐφʼ ἡμᾶς καὶ

Posted: April 21st, 2016, 10:31 am
by jgibson000
One of the arguments that Jeremias brings forth to counter the claim made by Streeter and others that the variant ἐλθέτω τὸ πνεῦμα σου τὸ ἅγιον ἐφʼ ἡμᾶς καὶ καθαρισάτω ἡμᾶς is original to Luke's version of the LP is that its form/structure is strikingly different/varies considerably from that of the other petitions found there. Is this observation correct? And if it is, is it a fatal one? If not, why not?

Jeffrey

Re: nauthenticity of ἐλθέτω τὸ πνεῦμα σου τὸ ἅγιον ἐφʼ ἡμᾶς

Posted: April 21st, 2016, 7:49 pm
by Stephen Hughes
Would you mind contextualising this quote please?

Re: nauthenticity of ἐλθέτω τὸ πνεῦμα σου τὸ ἅγιον ἐφʼ ἡμᾶς

Posted: April 22nd, 2016, 7:03 am
by jgibson000
Jeremias, New Testament Theology[ (1971) 194: "This petition for the spirit is certainly not original ...; the weak attestation, the difference in the position in which it appears, and above all its form, which varies from the structure of the other petitions, exclude this. It may, rather, derive from the baptismal liturgy in which the Lord's Prayer and the petition for the spirit were connected."

Jeffrey

Re: nauthenticity of ἐλθέτω τὸ πνεῦμα σου τὸ ἅγιον ἐφʼ ἡμᾶς

Posted: April 23rd, 2016, 7:30 am
by Barry Hofstetter
With the usual caveat concerning text critical issues, let me suggest that the premise of the argument is flawed. It assumes that the language and structure of the petition is fixed in a certain way, so that a petition, to be included, has to follow that pattern. Purely from the perspective of language production, that is not the case -- anything can be stated any way. Having said that, we do have third person imperatives and an arrangement that seems to mimic the other petitions. I see nothing in the language or structure which would exclude it, so that the determination must be made on other grounds.

Re: inauthenticity of ἐλθέτω τὸ πνεῦμα σου τὸ ἅγιον ἐφʼ ἡμᾶς

Posted: April 23rd, 2016, 10:05 am
by jgibson000
I agree with you, Barry ( although the way the LP is set out in Luke does seem to show an intent to conform the structure of the petitions to one another in a balanced way).. And I say something to this effect (though perhaps not as strongly as I should) in what I have just uploaded to academia.edu, i.,e. a draft of an excursus on the question of the authenticity of the variant.

It is available here.

https://www.academia.edu/s/d324309a54?source=link

Comments upon, and criticisms of, what I have written are welcome.

Jeffrey