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Matthew 12:40

Posted: June 22nd, 2017, 4:36 pm
by jgibson000
Just wondering if Matthew 12:40 (ὥσπερ γὰρ ἦν Ἰωνᾶς ἐν τῇ κοιλίᾳ τοῦ κήτους τρεῖς ἡμέρας καὶ τρεῖς νύκτας, οὕτως ἔσται ὁ υἱὸς τοῦ ἀνθρώπου ἐν τῇ καρδίᾳ τῆς γῆς τρεῖς ἡμέρας καὶ τρεῖς νύκτας) could be translated this way:

For the Son of Man will be in the heart of the earth for three days and three nights for the same reason that Jonah was in the belly of the fish for three days and three nights.

Jeffrey

Re: Matthew 12:40

Posted: June 22nd, 2017, 4:56 pm
by Jonathan Robie
Hmmm, can you say more? What brings "for this reason" into the text?

I'm not yet seeing it in the text or in the context, but I could easily be missing something. What am I missing?

Re: Matthew 12:40

Posted: June 22nd, 2017, 9:05 pm
by Stephen Carlson
Jonathan Robie wrote:
June 22nd, 2017, 4:56 pm
Hmmm, can you say more? What brings "for this reason" into the text? I'm not yet seeing it in the text or in the context, but I could easily be missing something. What am I missing?
I think he's asking about the οὕτως. It has an inferential use among many according to BDAG.

Re: Matthew 12:40

Posted: June 23rd, 2017, 8:11 am
by Robert Emil Berge
Even if you read οὕτως inferentially, which I see no reason to do, there is nothing here which leads to "for the *same* reason". What would that reason be, which would be the answer to both "why did Jona spend three days in the whale?" and "why did Jesus spend three days in the heart of the Earth?". I think a more straight forward translation is better "Just as Jona was in the stomach of the whale for three days and three night, so the son of man will be in the heart of the Earth for three days and three nights." The implication is, I think, that what happened to Jona foretells what happened to Jesus.

Re: Matthew 12:40

Posted: June 24th, 2017, 6:43 pm
by dougknighton
Jeffrey's translation doesn't seem to take ὥσπερ into account. It seems as though every other place ὥσπερ and οὕτως occur together in comparative clauses, the authors highlight the similarities between the ideas in each clause. In Matthew see 13:40; 24:27, 37-38.

Re: Matthew 12:40

Posted: June 25th, 2017, 9:35 am
by Barry Hofstetter
dougknighton wrote:
June 24th, 2017, 6:43 pm
Jeffrey's translation doesn't seem to take ὥσπερ into account. It seems as though every other place ὥσπερ and οὕτως occur together in comparative clauses, the authors highlight the similarities between the ideas in each clause. In Matthew see 13:40; 24:27, 37-38.
Yes, the point of comparison is simply being in the whale and being in the earth. "Just as...so."

Cf. these similar statements from Matthew:

ὥσπερ γὰρ ἡ ἀστραπὴ ἐξέρχεται ἀπὸ ἀνατολῶν καὶ φαίνεται ἕως δυσμῶν, οὕτως ἔσται ἡ παρουσία τοῦ υἱοῦ τοῦ ἀνθρώπου... (Matt 24:27)

 ὥσπερ γὰρ αἱ ἡμέραι τοῦ Νῶε, οὕτως ἔσται ἡ παρουσία τοῦ υἱοῦ τοῦ ἀνθρώπου. (Matt 24:37)

Identical syntax, yet no one would render "for the same reason." I would also ask if anybody in the history of interpretation has ever suggested this?

Re: Matthew 12:40

Posted: July 12th, 2018, 7:52 am
by PhillipLebsack
I see what you did there Jeffery...

but the other comments are right. You're not really doing anything with ωσπερ and "for the same reason" doesn't really convey the same idea that the Greek is trying to get across. You gotta look at them together, like a type of construction.

ωσπερ: BDAG says ωσπερ is "a marker of similarity between events and states". Looking at its etymology, it is essentially something like a crasis of ως (adv. as/like) and περι (prep. about/around). So it captures both of those concepts - "like about"...

ουτως: ουτως is usually translated as "thus" or "in like manner". BDAG says it pertains to what follows or precedes. Hence "thus", "in like manner", etc.

Matthew 12:40 ὥσπερ γὰρ ἦν Ἰωνᾶς ἐν τῇ κοιλίᾳ τοῦ κήτους τρεῖς ἡμέρας καὶ τρεῖς νύκτας, οὕτως ἔσται ὁ υἱὸς τοῦ ἀνθρώπου ἐν τῇ καρδίᾳ τῆς γῆς τρεῖς ἡμέρας καὶ τρεῖς νύκτας

Here is how I would do it (Italics are there for a reason. Don't be overly critical please):

For just as Jonas was continuously in the belly of the whale for three days and three nights, in the same way the Son of Man will be in the heart of the land for three days and three nights.