3 Corinthians, adding accents and punctuation marks

Other Greek writings of the New Testament era, including papyri and inscriptions
Forum rules
Please quote the Greek text you are discussing directly in your post if it is reasonably short - do not ask people to look it up. This is not a beginner's forum, competence in Greek is assumed.
Jonathan Robie
Posts: 4167
Joined: May 5th, 2011, 5:34 pm
Location: Durham, NC
Contact:

Re: 3 Corinthians, adding accents and punctuation marks

Post by Jonathan Robie »

S Walch wrote: March 29th, 2024, 9:16 am I personally think εριξ is either a transcription error or spelling error for θριξ.

!!! SNIP !!!

Καὶ μετὰ τρεῖς ἡμέρας καὶ τρεῖς νύκτας ἐκ τοῦ κατωτάτου ᾅδου ἐπήκουσεν ὁ Θεὸς προσευχομένου Ἰωνᾶ καὶ οὐδὲν αὐτοῦ διεφθάρη οὔτε θρὶξ οὔτε βλέφαρον
And after three days and three nights, from out of the deepest Hades God heard Jonah's prayer, and nothing perished from him. neither hair nor eyelash.
That seems quite likely - thanks for this!

FWIW, a quick Google search for "θ ε conflation scribal errors" brings up this:

https://zooniverseancientlives.wordpres ... nuscripts/
Since extant manuscripts of biblical texts, specifically the New Testament, exist in such a great number, they are a good place to look for scribal errors. The following is a list of common types of scribal errors one may encounter in these manuscripts:

Unintentional Errors

1. Confusing similarly shaped letters: Some letters in the Greek alphabet were easy to confuse when handwritten. For example, the round letters epsilon (ϵ), theta (Θ), omicron (Ο), and sigma (Ϲ) all have similar shapes.

Alpha (Α), delta (Δ), and lambda (Λ) all have triangular shapes and were sometimes confused.

Sometimes two letters written closely together were mistaken for one letter. For instance, a tau followed by an iota (ΤΙ) could end up looking like a pi (Π); a lambda followed by an iota (ΛΙ) could look like a nu (Ν).
ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/
S Walch
Posts: 281
Joined: June 13th, 2011, 4:27 pm
Location: Manchester, UK

Re: 3 Corinthians, adding accents and punctuation marks

Post by S Walch »

Are there images of BP10 anywhere? Would be great to actually check up on this, as I'm not fully convinced the transcription is reflective of the text in the manuscript (ΑΝΝΩΝ whilst could be dittography for the double Ν, the dot underneath the second N in the other transcription I've found makes me think this might be a misprint wherever the transcription was taken from).

[και ου]τως προοδοι προ [των] μ
[α]θετων αν(θρωπ)ων: οιτινες τεχνημα
τα εχιδνων εισιν: ους αποτρεπεσ
θε εν τη τοῦ Κ(υριο)υ δυναμει: και εστω
μεθ υμων ειρηνη.

I think the above might be what was intended (I swapped the ορ to ρο after the π and corrected some spelling); be great to check it on the manuscript itself though!

...and progress in this same way ahead of the disciples of mankind, whom are children of vipers, from whom you shall turn away by the power of the Lord. And peace shall be with you all.
S Walch
Posts: 281
Joined: June 13th, 2011, 4:27 pm
Location: Manchester, UK

Re: 3 Corinthians, adding accents and punctuation marks

Post by S Walch »

Jonathan Robie wrote: March 29th, 2024, 9:31 amFWIW, a quick Google search for "θ ε conflation scribal errors" brings up this:

https://zooniverseancientlives.wordpres ... nuscripts/
::SNIP::
Indeed, not a bad response from ChatGPT.

Can also include the phonetic itacisms and like-sounding or written letters:

ι / η / ει
η / ε / αι
δ / τ / θ
ο / ω
χ / κ / ξ

Essentially if you have a word which you can find absolutely no instance of, it's likely a spelling mistake. :)

Edit:
Let's scratch off the ChatGPT suggestion that μ/αθεων is a misspelling of μαθητων, and take it as ἄθεων - without god: ἄθεων ἀνθρώπων = men without god (modern term: atheists).

That the transcription splits the μ from the rest of the word on the following line shows that it shouldn't be included with the following word (I know of no manuscript which would split the first letter of a word from the following vowel).

Just need to work out what πορ[ ]μ could possibly be now...

Edit #2:
Okay, let's get back to this line:

[ΟΥ]ΤΩΣ ΠΡΟΟΔΥΠΟΡ[ ]Μ

Whilst I believe I was on the right track with προοδοι πορ, I've split the word in the wrong place: should be προ οδοιπορ[]μ, which leads me to believe this is the word ὁδοιπορων, with a misspelling (or error in the transcription) of the final ν as μ.

We therefore have:

...οὔτως πρὸ ὁδοιπορων, ἄθεων ἀνθρώπων, οἵτινες τέχνηματα ἔχιδνων εἶσιν. οὓς ἀποτρέπεσθε ἐν τῇ τοῦ Κυρίου δυνάμει. καὶ ἔστω μεθ’ ὑμῶν εἰρήνη.
...journey ahead of in the same way, men without God, who are children of vipers, whom you shall turn away by the power of the Lord. And peace shall be with you all.

(Let's make οδοιπορεω genitive :) )
S Walch
Posts: 281
Joined: June 13th, 2011, 4:27 pm
Location: Manchester, UK

Re: 3 Corinthians, adding accents and punctuation marks

Post by S Walch »

It's προοδοιπορούντων:

εἴ τις παραβαίνει ταῦτα τὸ πῦρ ἐστι μετ᾽ αὐτοῦ καὶ τῶν οὕτως προοδοιπορούντων ἀθέων ἀνθρώπων, οἵτινες γεννήματα ἐχιδνῶν εἰσίν, οὓς ἀποτρέπεσθε ἐν τῇ τοῦ κυρίου δυνάμει. καὶ ἔστω μεθ᾽ ὑμῶν εἰρήνη.

So that is either a misreading or misspelling in the BP10 with the μ at the end. :)

Edit:
Full text is as follows (with corrected accents etc.):

Κορίνθιοι πρὸς Παῦλον.
Στεφανᾶς καὶ σὺν αὐτῷ πρεσβύτεροι Δάφνος καὶ Εὔβουλος καὶ Θεόφιλος καὶ Ξένων, Παύλῳ τῷ ἐν κυρίῳ χαίρειν. παραγεγόνασιν εἰς Κόρινθον ἄνδρες δύο, Σίμων τις καὶ Κλεόβιος, οἵτινες τήν τινων πίστιν ἀνατρέπουσιν φθοριμαίοις λόγοις, οὓς σὺ δοκίμασον. οὐ γὰρ σοῦ ἠκούσαμέν ποτε τοιούτους λόγους οὐδὲ τῶν ἄλλων, ἀλλὰ ἃ παρελάβομεν παρά τέ σου κἀκείνων τηροῦμεν. ὡς οὖν ὁ κύριος ἠλέησεν ἡμᾶς, ὄντος ἔτι ἐν σαρκί σου, ἵνα παρά σου πάλιν ἀκούσωμεν, ἢ αὑτὸς παραγένου, πιστεύομεν γὰρ ὡς ἀπεκαλύφθη Θεονόῃ ὅτι εἴρυσταί σε κύριος ἐκ χειρὸς ἀνόμου, ἢ ἀντίγραψον ἡμῖν. ἔστι γὰρ ἃ λέγουσιν καὶ διδάσκουσιν τοιαῦτα· οὐ δεῖν φασιν προφήταις χρῆσθαι, οὐδ᾽ εἶναι θεὸν παντοκράτορα, οὐδὲ ἀνάστασιν εἶναι σαρκός, οὐδ᾽ εἶναι τὴν πλάσιν τὴν τῶν ἀνθρώπων τοῦ θεοῦ, οὐδ᾽ ὅτι εἰς σάρκα ἦλθεν ὁ κύριος οὐδ᾽ ὅτι ἐκ Μαρίας ἐγεννήθη, οὐδ᾽ εἶναι τὸν κόσμον θεοῦ ἀλλὰ ἀγγέλων. διό, ἀδελφέ, πᾶσαν εἰσήγησαι σπουδὴν παραγενέσθαι ἐνθάδε, ὅπως ἀσκανδάλιστος μείνῃ ἡ Κορινθίων ἐκκλησία καὶ τούτων ἡ ἄνοια ἔκδηλος γένηται. ἔρρωσο ἐν κυρίῳ.

Παῦλος Κορινθίοις περὶ σαρκός.
Παῦλος ὁ δέσμιος Χριστοῦ Ἰησοῦ τοῖς ἐν Κορίνθῳ ἀδελφοῖς ἐν πολλοῖς ὢν ἀστοχήμασι χαίρειν. οὐ θαυμάζω εἰ οὕτως τάχεως τὰ τοῦ πονηροῦ προτρέχει δόγματα, ὅτι ὁ κύριος Χριστὸς εἰς ταχεῖαν ποιήσεται τὴν ἔλευσιν ἀθετούμενος ἀπὸ τῶν παραχαρασσόντων τὰ λόγια αὐτοῦ. ἐγὼ γὰρ ἐν ἀρχῇ παρέδωκα ὑμῖν ἃ καὶ παρέλαβον ὑπὸ τῶν πρὸ ἐμοῦ ἀποστόλων γενομένων τὸν πάντα χρόνον μετὰ Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ· ὅτι ὁ κύριος ἡμῶν Χριστὸς Ἰησοῦς ἐκ Μαρίας ἐγεννήθη ἐκ σπέρματος Δαυὶδ πνεύματος ἁγίου ἀπὸ οὐρανοῦ παρὰ τοῦ πατρὸς ἀποσταλέντος εἰς αὐτήν, ἵνα εἰς κόσμον προέλθῃ καὶ ἐλευθερώσῃ πᾶσαν σάρκα διὰ τῆς ἰδίας σαρκός, καὶ ἵνα ἐκ νεκρῶν ἡμᾶς ἐγείρῃ σαρκικοὺς ὡς ἑαυτὸν τύπον ἔδειξε· καὶ ὅτι ὁ ἄνθρωπος ὑπὸ τοῦ πατρὸς αὐτοῦ ἐπλάσθη. διὸ καὶ ἀπολλύμενος ἐζητήθη ἵνα ζωοποιηθῇ διὰ τῆς υἱοθεσίας. ἐπεὶ γὰρ ὁ θεὸς ὁ τῶν ὅλων ὁ παντοκράτωρ ὁ ποιήσας τὸν οὐρανὸν καὶ τὴν γῆν ἀπέστειλε πρώτοις Ἰουδαίοις προφήτας εἰς τὸ ἀπὸ τῶν ἁμαρτιῶν ἀποσπασθῆναι. ἐβούλετο γὰρ τὸν οἶκον Ἰσραὴλ σῶσαι· μερίσας οὖν ἀπὸ τοῦ πνεύματος τοῦ Χριστοῦ ἔπεμψεν εἰς τοὺς προφήτας οἵτινες τὴν ἀπλανῆ θεοσέβειαν ἐκήρυσσον χρόνοις πολλοῖς. ὁ γὰρ ἄρχων ἄδικος ὢν καὶ θεὸς θέλων εἶναι διεχειρίζετο αὐτοὺς καὶ τὴν πᾶσαν σάρκα ἀνθρώπων πρὸς ἡδονὴν ἐδέσμευεν. ὁ θεὸς ὁ παντοκράτωρ δίκαιος ὢν καὶ μὴ βουλόμενος ἀκυρῶσαι τὸ ἴδιον πλάσμα κατέπεμψε πνεῦμα διὰ πυρὸς εἰς Μαρίαν τὴν Γαλιλαῖαν, να δι᾽ ἧς σαρκὸς ἀπολλυμένης ἐνεπολιτεύετο ὁ πονηρὸς διὰ ταύτης νικηθεὶς ἐλεγχθῇ μὴ ὢν θεός. τῷ γὰρ ἰδίῳ σώματι Χριστὸς Ἰησοῦς πᾶσαν ἔσωσε σάρκα, ἵνα δικαιοσύνης ναὸν ἐν τῷ ἰδίῳ σώματι ἀναδείξῃ, ἐν ᾧ ἡμεῖς ἠλευθερώμεθα. οὐκ εἴσιν οὖν τέκνα δικαιοσύνης ἀλλὰ τέκνα ὀργῆς οἵτινες τὴν θεοῦ πρόνοιαν ἀνακόπτουσιν λέγοντες μὴ εἶναι τὸν οὐρανὸν καὶ τὴν γῆν καὶ πάντα τὰ ἐν αὐτοῖς τοῦ πατρὸς ἔργα, κατηραμένην γὰρ τοῦ ὄφεως πίστιν ἔχουσιν. οὕστινας ἀποτρέπεσθε καὶ ἀπὸ τῆς διδασκαλίας αὐτῶν ἀποφεύγετε. οἳ δὲ ὑμῖν λέγουσιν ἀνάστασις οὐκ ἔστιν σαρκός, ἐκείνοις οὐκ ἔστιν ἀνάστασις, οἵτινες τὸν οὕτως ἀναστάντα ἀπιστοῦσι. οὔ τε γὰρ, ἄνδρες Κορίνθιοι, οἴδασι τὸν ἐπὶ τοῦ πυροῦ σπόρον ἢ τῶν ἄλλων σπερμάτων, ὅτι γυμνὰ βάλλεται εἰς τὴν γῆν καὶ συμφθαρέντα κάτω ἠγέρθη ἐν θελήματι θεοῦ ἔνσωμα καὶ ἠμφιεσμένα. ὥστε οὐ μόνον τὸ σῶμα ἐγείρεται τὸ βληθὲν ἀλλὰ πολλοστὸν ὀρθὸν ηὐλογημένον. εἰ δὲ δεῖ ἡμᾶς καὶ ἀπὸ τῶν σπερμάτων μὴ ποιεῖσθαι τὴν παραβολήν, οἴδατε ὅτι Ἰωνᾶς ὁ Ἀμαθίου υἱός, ἵνα εἰς Νινευὴ μὴ κηρῦξαι εἰς κῆτος καταπέποται, καὶ μετὰ τρεῖς ἡμέρας καὶ τρεῖς νύκτας ἐκ τοῦ κατωτάτου τύπον ᾅδου ἐπήκουσεν ὁ θεὸς προσευχομένου Ἰωνᾶ καὶ οὐδὲν αὐτοῦ διεφθάρη, οὔτε θρὶξ οὔτε βλέφαρον· πόσῳ μᾶλλον ὑμᾶς, ὀλιγόπιστοι, τοὺς πιστεύσαντας εἰς Χριστὸν Ἰησοῦν ἐξεγείρει ὡς αὐτὸς ἠγέρθη. εἰ καὶ τὰ Ἐλισαίου ὀστέα τοῦ προφήτου νεκροῦ βληθέντος ἀπὸ τῶν υἱῶν Ἰσραὴλ ἐπ᾽ αὐτὰ ἀνέστη τὸ σῶμα τοῦ ἀνθρώπου, τί καὶ ὑμεῖς, τὸ σῶμα καὶ τὰ ὀστέα καὶ τὸ πνεῦμα Χριστοῦ ἐπιριφέντες, ἐν ἐκείνῃ τῇ ἡμέρᾳ ἀναστήσεσθε ἔχοντες ὑγιῆ τὴν σάρκα· εἰ δέ τι ἄλλο παραδέχεσθε κόπους μοι μὴ παρέχετε. ἐγὼ γὰρ τὰ δέσμα εἰς τὰς χεῖρας ἔχω, ἵνα Χριστὸν κερδήσω καὶ τὰ στίγματα ἐν τῷ σώματί μου, ἵνα ἔλθω εἰς τὴν ἐκ νεκρῶν ἀνάστασιν. καὶ εἴ τις ᾧ παρέλαβε κανόνι διὰ τῶν μακαρίων προφητῶν καὶ τοῦ ἁγίου εὐαγγελίου μένει μισθὸν λήμψεται· εἴ τις παραβαίνει ταῦτα τὸ πῦρ ἐστι μετ᾽ αὐτοῦ καὶ τῶν οὕτως προοδοιπορούντων ἀθέων ἀνθρώπων, οἵτινες γεννήματα ἐχιδνῶν εἰσίν, οὓς ἀποτρέπεσθε ἐν τῇ τοῦ κυρίου δυνάμει. καὶ ἔστω μεθ᾽ ὑμῶν εἰρήνη.
Jonathan Robie
Posts: 4167
Joined: May 5th, 2011, 5:34 pm
Location: Durham, NC
Contact:

Re: 3 Corinthians, adding accents and punctuation marks

Post by Jonathan Robie »

Thanks, S Walch!

This has been a fun thread. Thanks, Phil, for bringing this here.
ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/
Jonathan Robie
Posts: 4167
Joined: May 5th, 2011, 5:34 pm
Location: Durham, NC
Contact:

Re: 3 Corinthians, adding accents and punctuation marks

Post by Jonathan Robie »

S Walch wrote: March 29th, 2024, 10:18 am Are there images of BP10 anywhere?
What is the Greek textual basis for 3 Corinthians? Are the earliest manuscripts Armenian? Tell me about BP10 ...
ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/
S Walch
Posts: 281
Joined: June 13th, 2011, 4:27 pm
Location: Manchester, UK

Re: 3 Corinthians, adding accents and punctuation marks

Post by S Walch »

Jonathan Robie wrote: March 30th, 2024, 6:17 pmWhat is the Greek textual basis for 3 Corinthians? Are the earliest manuscripts Armenian? Tell me about BP10 ...
Probably best to start here from the ever resourceful Brent Nongbri (who I truly believe should be a private detective):

https://brentnongbri.com/2017/09/24/the ... mer-items/

Bodmer Papyrus 10 is from a combined codex which also consists of Bodmer Papyri V, XI, VII, XIII, XII, and VIII (VII and VIII are more commonly known as P72, with VII containing Jude, VIII containing 1 and 2 Peter, hence why I think they are likely the work of the same copyist as BP10), which are a variety of Christian works and Old and New Testament material.

BP10 is, as far as I'm aware, the only known Greek version of 3 Corinthians, with it mainly been preserved in Latin and Armenian manuscripts as included within the Acts of Paul; the missing Greek words in the lacunae of BP10 are therefore filled out by retroversion from the Latin/Armenian versions.

Whilst typing this post I have stumbled across the following: https://archive.org/details/actesduxvec ... 5/mode/2up, which has a good discussion of BP10 (including confirmation that the copyist is the same as that of P72!) - pages 119-128. :)
PhillipLebsack
Posts: 90
Joined: January 17th, 2018, 10:31 am

Re: 3 Corinthians, adding accents and punctuation marks

Post by PhillipLebsack »

Thanks everyone for commenting and all the help. Especially a big thanks to S Walch.

High quality images of the manuscript can be viewed here. It includes 1-2 Peter, Jude, the Infancy Gospel of James, and 3rd Corinthians.

https://bodmerlab.unige.ch/fr/constella ... 1072205366

They called it "PB C," but it is the same as P72 and BP10.

Additionally, I found a better transcription in Thomas Wayment's "The Text of the New Testament Apocrypha (100–400 CE)" published in 2013. I'm attaching the pages from his book of his transcription. In case anyone notices any more tweaks to be made to our "final product" of 3rd Corinthians.

I myself transcribed the original transcription from (in case anyone is wondering) Hovhanessian, Vahan. "Third Corinthians: Reclaiming Paul for Christian Orthodoxy."
Attachments
Wayment, 3rd Corinthians.pdf
(182.2 KiB) Downloaded 12 times
PhillipLebsack
Posts: 90
Joined: January 17th, 2018, 10:31 am

Re: 3 Corinthians, adding accents and punctuation marks

Post by PhillipLebsack »

In the link I posted previously (also here below), the 3rd Corinthians text begins on the image 040.

https://bodmerlab.unige.ch/fr/constella ... 6?page=040

I am still checking it myself. But if anyone notices anything that needs to be updated in the final product S Walch provided, please comment any suggestions.
Attachments
3rd Corinthians PB10 beginning.png
3rd Corinthians PB10 beginning.png (1.92 MiB) Viewed 227 times
S Walch
Posts: 281
Joined: June 13th, 2011, 4:27 pm
Location: Manchester, UK

Re: 3 Corinthians, adding accents and punctuation marks

Post by S Walch »

Excellent, Philip - thanks for the links to the images!

I'm not sure where the μ at the end of προοδ(οι)πορουντων appears to have come from: current image shows no trace of another letter near the end of the line on page 045. Interestingly it also looks like the nomen sacrum ΚΥ is a correction from ΧΥ there on line 4 on the same page.

Line one of 044 has the εριξ from the initial post: I am fully convinced that is in fact θρξ (copyist has missed the ι), with the initial transcription being a misreading of the θ as an ε - the lines in fact do join up as is usual with the θ by this copyist, albeit the papyrus is a little bit faded at the place. Also the nomen sacrum ΧΡΝ also appears to be the reverse change from ΚΡΝ - evidence of both the graphical and pronunciation similarities of letters κ/χ.

(Quick question/request: do we have like an overline bbcode in use on the board, so I can type out nice looking nomina sacra? :))
Post Reply

Return to “Koine Greek Texts”