Xenophon, The Frugal Estate Manager, Chapter 2

Discussion of Greek texts that do not fall into the other categories, including texts in other dialects or texts from other periods.
Forum rules
This is not a beginner's forum, competence in Greek is assumed.
Wes Wood
Posts: 692
Joined: September 20th, 2013, 8:18 pm

Re: Xenophon, The Frugal Estate Manager, Chapter 2

Post by Wes Wood » January 11th, 2015, 4:42 pm

Xenophon, Estate manager, Chapter 2, Section 18 wrote:τοὺς μὲν γὰρ εἰκῇ ταῦτα πράττοντας ζημιουμένους ἑώρων, τοὺς δὲ γνώμῃ συντεταμένῃ ἐπιμελουμένους καὶ θᾶττον καὶ ῥᾷον καὶ κερδαλεώτερον κατέγνων πράττοντας. παρ᾽ ὧν ἂν καὶ σὲ οἶμαι, εἰ βούλοιο, μαθόντα, εἴ σοι ὁ θεὸς μὴ ἐναντιοῖτο, πάνυ ἂν δεινὸν χρηματιστὴν γενέσθαι.
"For I saw some who were doing these things without a plan suffer loss, but I discovered others who were completely focused on doing these things doing them more quickly and more easily and more gainfully. From whom also I know you could learn, if you wished [and] if your god did not oppose you, to become a very skillful business man."
0 x


Ἀσπάζομαι μὲν καὶ φιλῶ, πείσομαι δὲ μᾶλλον τῷ θεῷ ἢ ὑμῖν.-Ἀπολογία Σωκράτους 29δ

Stephen Hughes
Posts: 3323
Joined: February 26th, 2013, 7:12 am

Re: Xenophon, The Frugal Estate Manager, Chapter 2

Post by Stephen Hughes » January 12th, 2015, 1:23 am

Wes Wood wrote:One thing I do like about the gloss "allow" here is that the English word is vague enough to allow either of these interpretations. It says that he has permission to use them, but it doesn't specify what that action looks like. I guess it could even cover a situation where a person uses something in a way that would cause it to be destroyed. Perhaps he could be allowed to melt the flute down and make a tiny statue. I think it is obvious I am talking about the English word now here.
Sometimes we are lucky and find a word in English that is as vague as - has the same polysemy as - a Greek word, but it is rare. Not particularly mentioning this case, but when I have made the "discovery" that you have, I have not appreciated the scope of the Greek and somehow blinkered my understanding of the English.

Which of two ways should I interpret your recourse to a vague word? Do you feel the Greek word is vague, or are you not sure what it exactly means. Choosing between two understandings is like approaching a fork in the road; the road widens before the division then for a some distance you can drive and swerve between the two alternatives. Eventually the road ahead leads you in one way or the other, or you end up more or less vaguely associating your vehicle with the water-filled plastic things between the choices.

Anyway, there are good and bad reasons for vagueness.
Wes Wood wrote:Where I really felt like I was taking a chance was with my translation of ἐν τοῖς αὑτοῦ. I believe that I was unsure whether to take it with παράσχοι or with μανθάνειν. In my original translation, I believe I took it as relating to μανθάνειν. I felt like that the splitting of the datives might be an indication that the first was with παράσχοι and the second was with μαθεῖν.

If you don't mind my asking, how would you translate the two excerpts below? My reason for asking relates both to the meaning of παρεχω and what case (and usage) may be linked to each verbal element.

ἵνα καὶ τῆς πλινθίνης ἀφανισθείσης ὑπὸ τῆς ἐπομβρίας ἡ λιθίνη μείνασα παράσχῃ μαθεῖν τοῖς ἀνθρώποις τὰ ἐγγεγραμμένα δηλοῦσα καὶ πλινθίνην ὑπ᾽ αὐτῶν ἀνατεθῆναι.
Josephus Antiquities II.iii.71 wrote:ἵνα καὶ τῆς πλινθίνης ἀφανισθείσης ὑπὸ τῆς ἐπομβρίας ἡ λιθίνη μείνασα παράσχῃ μαθεῖν τοῖς ἀνθρώποις τὰ ἐγγεγραμμένα δηλοῦσα καὶ πλινθίνην ὑπ᾽ αὐτῶν ἀνατεθῆναι.
καὶ τῆς πλινθίνης ἀφανισθείσης ὑπὸ τῆς ἐπομβρίας - genitive absolute - καὶ τῆς πλινθίνης {στήλης} ἀφανισθείσης ὑπὸ τῆς ἐπομβρίας
ἐπομβρία - the Deluge (flood after after heavy rain in the same area)
ἵνα ... ἡ λιθίνη μείνασα παράσχῃ - ἵνα ... ἡ λιθίνη {στήλη} μείνασα παράσχῃ μαθεῖν - so that the stone pillar after it had remained (survived the Deluge) it might afford the opportunity to learn (from it) that ...
τοῖς ἀνθρώποις τὰ ἐγγεγραμμένα δηλοῦσα - (the stone pillar clearly showing people the things that had been written) this δ. τινί τι is the most common construction - another participial construction
μαθεῖν τοῖς ἀνθρώποις τὰ ἐγγεγραμμένα δηλοῦσα καὶ πλινθίνην ὑπ᾽ αὐτῶν ἀνατεθῆναι - There are a number of nested syntaxtic balances here μαθεῖν balances with καὶ πλινθίνην ὑπ᾽ αὐτῶν ἀνατεθῆναι across τοῖς ἀνθρώποις τὰ ἐγγεγραμμένα δηλοῦσα, and τοῖς ἀνθρώποις balances with δηλοῦσα across τὰ ἐγγεγραμμένα, while καὶ πλινθίνην also balances with ἀνατεθῆναι across ὑπ᾽ αὐτῶν too.
ἀνατεθῆναι - be set up, be erected
Wes Wood wrote:ἀλλὰ καὶ τὴν κατ᾽ ἄλλου μεμηχανημένην τιμωρίαν ταύτην ἐκείνου ποιήσαντος εἶναι καὶ τοῖς ἄλλοις μαθεῖν οὕτως γνῶναι παρεσχηκότος,
I'm not familiar with the numbering conventions in this text
Josephus AJ, 11, 268, 269 wrote:ὅθεν ἐπέρχεταί μοι τὸ θεῖον θαυμάζειν καὶ τὴν σοφίαν αὐτοῦ καὶ δικαιοσύνην καταμανθάνειν, μὴ μόνον τὴν Ἀμάνου κολάσαντος πονηρίαν, ἀλλὰ καὶ τὴν κατ’ ἄλλου μεμηχανημένην τιμωρίαν ταύτην ἐκείνου ποιήσαντος εἶναι καὶ τοῖς ἄλλοις μαθεῖν οὕτως γνῶναι παρεσχηκότος, ὡς ἃ καθ’ ἑτέρου τις παρεσκεύασε ταῦτα λανθάνει καθ’ ἑαυτοῦ πρῶτον ἑτοιμασάμενος.
You've broken a genitive absolute construction in twain with your quote. Let me take it and the following part up:

μὴ μόνον τὴν Ἀμάνου κολάσαντος πονηρίαν, ἀλλὰ καὶ τὴν κατ’ ἄλλου μεμηχανημένην τιμωρίαν ταύτην ἐκείνου ποιήσαντος εἶναι καὶ τοῖς ἄλλοις μαθεῖν οὕτως γνῶναι παρεσχηκότος - while not only punishing the wickedness of Haman, but also God (he) making the same punishment (for Haman) that he (Haman) had contrived against the other person (Mordecai), so it can be for others to learn that according to the example of Haman's treating of Mordecai (= οὕτως) he has made it possible to know that what things someone has prepared against another, he does not yet know that he has prepared those same things against himself.

Can you follow the Greek from that English? Do you need
0 x
Γελᾷ δ' ὁ μωρός, κἄν τι μὴ γέλοιον ᾖ
(Menander, Γνῶμαι μονόστιχοι 108)

Stephen Hughes
Posts: 3323
Joined: February 26th, 2013, 7:12 am

Re: Xenophon, The Frugal Estate Manager, Chapter 2

Post by Stephen Hughes » January 12th, 2015, 11:50 am

Can you follow the Greek from that English? Do you need
Sorry, I was distracted and in a rush.

... me to put explanatory hints with that, not only this English. In both of these passages nothing material is passed over.

I think it would be useful to note the constructions, not just translate.
0 x
Γελᾷ δ' ὁ μωρός, κἄν τι μὴ γέλοιον ᾖ
(Menander, Γνῶμαι μονόστιχοι 108)

Wes Wood
Posts: 692
Joined: September 20th, 2013, 8:18 pm

Re: Xenophon, The Frugal Estate Manager, Chapter 2

Post by Wes Wood » January 12th, 2015, 1:23 pm

My intent was to compare my translation to yours, and to that aim it worked well. My major concern is the context of the words in question. This type of inquiry is new to me; please forgive me for my incompetence.
0 x
Ἀσπάζομαι μὲν καὶ φιλῶ, πείσομαι δὲ μᾶλλον τῷ θεῷ ἢ ὑμῖν.-Ἀπολογία Σωκράτους 29δ

Stephen Hughes
Posts: 3323
Joined: February 26th, 2013, 7:12 am

Re: Xenophon, The Frugal Estate Manager, Chapter 2

Post by Stephen Hughes » January 13th, 2015, 4:54 am

Stephen Hughes wrote:Sorry, I was distracted and in a rush.
Wes Wood wrote:please forgive me for my incompetence.
Some Christians pray the Lord's Prayer often, (others tend to ad lib, or don't pray). From the structure, I suppose you mean this as a recursive reference to your forgiveness of my own shortcomings.
My intent was to compare my translation to yours, and to that aim it worked well.
For such an important work, I guess there are many competent and polished translations that you could look at, but perhaps I understand where a "But how would YOU translate it?" question is coming from. I remember asking that sort of question of the professor of Greek at Sydney University, long before I was formally enrolled there.
Wes Wood wrote:My major concern is the context of the words in question. This type of inquiry is new to me;
Your major is chemistry, am I right? Let me say a few things about Chemistry to help me demonstrate to you the degree to which my ignorance of that subject extends.

If I asked you the question, "What is the relationship between the nucleus of one atom, and the electron of another, what would your immediate thoughts be? It would be covalent bonds / molecular / ionic bonds, right? How about the relationship between one of the electrons of one molecule and the nucleus of an atom in another non-associated molecule? You red light the question, and immediately think in terms of a two step structure (intermolecular bonding vs. intramolecular forces), right? When we go looking for context, you need to keep in mind whether you are looking for structure like either of those types.

Sorry I messed up the colours on this the first time, but lets look at it again,
μαθεῖν τοῖς ἀνθρώποις τὰ ἐγγεγραμμένα δηλοῦσα καὶ πλινθίνην ὑπ᾽ αὐτῶν ἀνατεθῆναι
Like any other inflected word, the verb μαθεῖν has a fit-into-the-sentence part and a needing-things-to-fit-with-it part. We are, most of us familiar that the -εῖν part fits it into a sentence. Also, you were taught that the μαθ- part means learn, but there is more to it than that. That part requires an accusative (and infinitive) to achieve a type of stability, rather than just sitting out there on it's own. There are other ways that it can be brought into a stable state too. Here is the leaned-down LSJ entry for μανθάνειν, to give an idea of the range of structures:
μανθάνω
  • I. learn, esp. by study (but also, by practice; by experience) [The meaning]
    μ. τί τινος learn sth from sb , [The basic structure - become familiar with this]
    τι ἔκ τινος / παρά τινος / παρά τινος ὅτι / πρός τινος [Alternative / Similar structures - be able to recognise these]
    c. inf., learn to . . , or how to . . , [A basic structure - become familiar with this]
  • II. c. inf. acquire a habit of, and in past tenses, to be accustomed to . . , , [Special uses - be able to recognise these]
  • III. 1. τι perceive, remark, notice,
    • 2. freq. c. part.,
    • 3. with ὅτι, ; with ὡς, [Be able to expect this sentence structure]
  • IV. understand c. dat. pers., εἴ μοι μανθάνεις if you take me, freq. in Dialogue, μανθάνεις; d'ye see? Answ., πάνυ μανθάνω perfectly! [Special idioms - learn them as such]
  • V. τί μαθών . . [Special idiom - learn it as such]
Now, what you don't see there (in normal usage) is the dative, but in this passage, the dative comes right after μανθάνειν, so it marks the following bit as parenthetical.

If wanted to really learn and you had nothing to do in a free moment of your time, here are the examples of παρέχειν from the Oeconomicus. Lean down the LSJ entry to it's structural / usage information then match these examples to the usages. That ought to help you learn the word. I have more to say about chemistry and language when you've made an attempt at that...
Oec. 2.4 wrote:τὰ μὲν γὰρ ἐμά, ἔφη, ἱκανά ἐστιν ἐμοὶ παρέχειν τὰ ἐμοὶ ἀρκοῦντα:
Oec. 2.12 wrote:εἰ μήτε αὐτὸς πώποτε κτήσαιτο αὐλοὺς μήτε ἄλλος αὐτῷ παράσχοι ἐν τοῖς αὑτοῦ μανθάνειν:
Oec. 2.13 [i]bis[/i] wrote:οὔτε ἄλλος πώποτέ μοι παρέσχε τὰ ἑαυτοῦ διοικεῖν ἀλλ᾽ ἢ σὺ νυνὶ ἐθέλεις παρέχειν.
Oec. 4.7 wrote: καὶ τούτους δοκίμοις ἵπποις τε καὶ ὅπλοις κατεσκευασμένους παρέχωσι,
Oec. 4.8 wrote:καὶ οὓς μὲν ἂν αἰσθάνηται τῶν ἀρχόντων συνοικουμένην τε τὴν χώραν παρεχομένους καὶ ἐνεργὸν οὖσαν τὴν γῆν καὶ πλήρη δένδρων τε ὧν ἑκάστη φέρει καὶ καρπῶν,
Oec. 4.10 [i]bis[/i] wrote:ἂν δὲ παρέχοντος τοῦ φρουράρχου εἰρήνην τοῖς ἔργοις ὁ ἄρχων ὀλιγάνθρωπόν τε παρέχηται καὶ ἀργὸν τὴν χώραν, τούτου αὖ κατηγορεῖ ὁ φρούραρχος.
Oec. 5.3 wrote:καὶ ταῦτα μετὰ ἡδίστων ὀσμῶν καὶ θεαμάτων παρέχει:
Oec. 5.4 wrote: παρέχουσα δ᾽ ἀφθονώτατα τἀγαθὰ οὐκ ἐᾷ ταῦτα μετὰ μαλακίας λαμβάνειν
Oec. 5.5 [u]bis[/u] wrote:ἡ γεωργία ... σφοδρὸν τὸ σῶμα παρέχει: ... ἡ γῆ καὶ κυσὶν εὐπέτειαν τροφῆς παρέχουσα καὶ θηρία συμπαρατρέφουσα.
Oec. 5.6 wrote:ὁ μὲν ἵππος πρῴ τε κομίζων τὸν κηδόμενον εἰς τὴν ἐπιμέλειαν καὶ ἐξουσίαν παρέχων ὀψὲ ἀπιέναι,
Oec. 5.8 wrote:καὶ δραμεῖν δὲ καὶ βαλεῖν καὶ πηδῆσαι τίς ἱκανωτέρους τέχνη γεωργίας παρέχεται;
Oec. 5.10 wrote: τίς δὲ ἄλλη θεοῖς ἀπαρχὰς πρεπωδεστέρας παρέχει ἢ ἑορτὰς πληρεστέρας ἀποδεικνύει;
Oec. 6.9 wrote: αὕτη γὰρ ἡ ἐργασία μαθεῖν τε ῥᾴστη ἐδόκει εἶναι καὶ ἡδίστη ἐργάζεσθαι, καὶ τὰ σώματα κάλλιστά τε καὶ εὐρωστότατα παρέχεσθαι, καὶ ταῖς ψυχαῖς ἥκιστα ἀσχολίαν παρέχειν φίλων τε καὶ πόλεων συνεπιμελεῖσθαι.
Oec. 6.10 wrote: ὅτι καὶ πολίτας ἀρίστους καὶ εὐνουστάτους παρέχεσθαι δοκεῖ τῷ κοινῷ.
Oec. 8.13 wrote:ὥστε διατριβὴν παρέχειν,
Oec. 9.9 wrote:ὅπου δεῖ τιθέναι, παρεδώκαμεν καὶ ἐπετάξαμεν σῶα παρέχειν:
Oec. 10.5 [i]bis[/i] wrote:εἴ σοι τὸ σῶμα πειρῴμην παρέχειν τὸ ἐμαυτοῦ ἐπιμελόμενος ὅπως ὑγιαῖνόν τε καὶ ἐρρωμένον ἔσται, ... καὶ παρέχων ὁρᾶν καὶ ἅπτεσθαι μίλτου ἀντὶ τοῦ ἐμαυτοῦ χρωτός
Oec. 10.13 wrote:αἱ δ᾽ ἀεὶ καθήμεναι σεμνῶς πρὸς τὰς κεκοσμημένας καὶ ἐξαπατώσας κρίνεσθαι παρέχουσιν ἑαυτάς.
Oec. 11.20 wrote:καὶ γὰρ ὅτι ὀρθῶς ἑκάστου τούτων ἐπιμελῇ ἱκανὰ τεκμήρια παρέχῃ:
Oec. 12.12 wrote: οὔτε γὰρ ἂν αὐτὸς δύναιτο καθεύδων τὰ δέοντα ποιεῖν οὔτε ἄλλους παρέχεσθαι.
Oec. 13.10 wrote:ἱμάτιά τε γὰρ ἃ δεῖ παρέχειν ἐμὲ τοῖς ἐργαστῆρσι καὶ ὑποδήματα οὐχ ὅμοια πάντα ποιῶ,
Oec. 14.1 wrote:ὥστε πειθομένους παρέχεσθαι,
Oec. 15.12 wrote: οὕτω καὶ τὰ ἤθη, ὦ Σώκρατες, ἔφη, γενναιοτάτους τοὺς αὐτῇ συνόντας ἡ γεωργία ἔοικε παρέχεσθαι.
Oec. 16.12 wrote:καὶ τὴν πόαν γε ἀναστρεφομένην, ἔφη, ὦ Σώκρατες, τηνικαῦτα κόπρον μὲν τῇ γῇ ἤδη παρέχειν, καρπὸν δ᾽ οὔπω καταβαλεῖν ὥστε φύεσθαι.
Oec. 17.12 wrote:καὶ ὕλη δὲ πολλάκις ὑπὸ τῶν ὑδάτων δήπου συνεξορμᾷ τῷ σίτῳ καὶ παρέχει πνιγμὸν αὐτῷ.
Oec. 20.11 [u]bis[/u] wrote: καίτοι ὕδωρ μὲν ὁ ἄνω θεὸς παρέχει, τὰ δὲ κοῖλα πάντα τέλματα γίγνεται, ἡ γῆ δὲ ὕλην παντοίαν παρέχει
Oec. 20.14 wrote:δοκεῖ δέ μοι ἡ γῆ καὶ τοὺς κακούς τε καὶ ἀργοὺς τῷ εὔγνωστα καὶ εὐμαθῆ πάντα παρέχειν ἄριστα ἐξετάζειν.
Oec. 20.21 wrote:ταῦτα οὐκέτι δεῖ θαυμάζειν ἐὰν ἀντὶ τῆς περιουσίας ἔνδειαν παρέχηται.
Oec. 20.23 wrote:τοὺς δὲ μὴ ἔχοντας ἐπίδοσιν οὐδὲ ἡδονὰς ὁμοίας ἐνόμιζε παρέχειν,
Oec. 21.4 [i]bis[/i] wrote:οἱ μὲν γὰρ οὔτε πονεῖν ἐθέλοντας οὔτε κινδυνεύειν παρέχονται, ... οἱ δὲ αὐτοὶ οὗτοι οὐδ᾽ αἰσχύνεσθαι ἐπισταμένους παρέχουσιν, ἄν τι τῶν αἰσχρῶν συμβαίνῃ.
Oec. 21.9 wrote:ὃς ἂν δύνηται προθύμους καὶ ἐντεταμένους παρέχεσθαι εἰς τὸ ἔργον καὶ συνεχεῖς,
0 x
Γελᾷ δ' ὁ μωρός, κἄν τι μὴ γέλοιον ᾖ
(Menander, Γνῶμαι μονόστιχοι 108)

Wes Wood
Posts: 692
Joined: September 20th, 2013, 8:18 pm

Re: Xenophon, The Frugal Estate Manager, Chapter 2

Post by Wes Wood » January 13th, 2015, 8:54 am

Stephen Hughes wrote:If wanted to really learn
I see what you did there. :)

Let me work through these, and I will respond to the other parts of this post after work.
0 x
Ἀσπάζομαι μὲν καὶ φιλῶ, πείσομαι δὲ μᾶλλον τῷ θεῷ ἢ ὑμῖν.-Ἀπολογία Σωκράτους 29δ

Stephen Hughes
Posts: 3323
Joined: February 26th, 2013, 7:12 am

Re: Xenophon, The Frugal Estate Manager, Chapter 2

Post by Stephen Hughes » January 13th, 2015, 10:01 am

Wes Wood wrote:
Stephen Hughes wrote:If wanted to really learn
I see what you did there. :)
If wanted to really learn and you had nothing to do
Phrase adding fail ! ! ! ! !

Don't backlog everything else by doing this. There is a lot to do in it. It is actually an exercise that should be done after one has gone completely through the text, and then returns to it to learn specific things from it.
0 x
Γελᾷ δ' ὁ μωρός, κἄν τι μὴ γέλοιον ᾖ
(Menander, Γνῶμαι μονόστιχοι 108)

Stephen Hughes
Posts: 3323
Joined: February 26th, 2013, 7:12 am

Re: Xenophon, The Frugal Estate Manager, Chapter 2

Post by Stephen Hughes » January 13th, 2015, 12:26 pm

Stephen Hughes wrote:
Xenophon, [i]Estate manager[/i], Chapter 2, Section 13 wrote:οὔτε γὰρ αὐτὸς ὄργανα χρήματα ἐκεκτήμην, ὥστε μανθάνειν, οὔτε ἄλλος πώποτέ μοι παρέσχε τὰ ἑαυτοῦ διοικεῖν ἀλλ᾽ ἢ σὺ νυνὶ ἐθέλεις παρέχειν. οἱ δὲ δήπου τὸ πρῶτον μανθάνοντες κιθαρίζειν καὶ τὰς λύρας λυμαίνονται: καὶ ἐγὼ δὴ εἰ ἐπιχειρήσαιμι ἐν τῷ σῷ οἴκῳ μανθάνειν οἰκονομεῖν, ἴσως ἂν καταλυμηναίμην ἄν σου τὸν οἶκον.
Wes Wood wrote:"Neither have I myself possessed the things needed to make money, to allow me the opportunity to learn how to use them, nor have I had another person allow me to manage his things unless you are going to allow me to manage yours right this instant. But perhaps the ones who are learning to play the lyre for the first time destroy them, and what is more if I myself attempted to learn management using your house, I would probably utterly destroy your estate."
ὄργανα χρήματα - What do you mean by "the things needed to make money"? I took this to mean "instruments as possessions", "instruments as things I could use", how did you arrive at your understanding?
διοικεῖν - my "to use" is beyond the meaning allowable, but your "to manage" doesn't go far enough. It seems to mean something like let me have control of them, give me the right to use them.
τὰ ἑαυτοῦ his things - I think contextually this refers to a specific thing; the instruments, but it could refer to any tools.
λυμαίνονται - destroy them - I think this means "do anything but bring music out of them"
καταλυμηναίμην - utterly destroy - perhaps put it into a bad way. I don't think that this is a deliberate act of destruction.

It is possible here that there is an initial play on the fact that the range of meaning of these words ὄργανα, διοικεῖν is in fact quite broad, and that the meaning that he is talking about musical instruments becomes clear later on.
0 x
Γελᾷ δ' ὁ μωρός, κἄν τι μὴ γέλοιον ᾖ
(Menander, Γνῶμαι μονόστιχοι 108)

Stephen Hughes
Posts: 3323
Joined: February 26th, 2013, 7:12 am

Re: Xenophon, The Frugal Estate Manager, Chapter 2

Post by Stephen Hughes » January 13th, 2015, 12:34 pm

Wes Wood wrote:
Xenophon, Estate manager, Chapter 2, Section 14 wrote:πρὸς ταῦτα ὁ Κριτόβουλος εἶπε: προθύμως γε, ὦ Σώκρατες, ἀποφεύγειν μοι πειρᾷ μηδέν με συνωφελῆσαι εἰς τὸ ῥᾷον ὑποφέρειν τὰ ἐμοὶ ἀναγκαῖα πράγματα. οὐ μὰ Δί᾽, ἔφη ὁ Σωκράτης, οὐκ ἔγωγε, ἀλλ᾽ ὅσα ἔχω καὶ πάνυ προθύμως ἐξηγήσομαί σοι.
But to these things Kritoboulus said: “Indeed, you eagerly run from me making no effort to join in relieving me from my distressing affairs that it would be easy to rescue me from."

Socrates said, “No, by Jupiter, certainly not, but as much as I have [knowledge of] I will very eagerly explain to you."

Is the part in bold acceptable?
to join in relieving me from my distressing affairs that it would be easy to rescue me from. - you could tweak this by understanding that με and ὑποφέρειν go together. The adverbial phrase εἰς τὸ ῥᾷον could be removed then reinserted for an additional meaning, rather than rearranged in your mind as με συνωφελῆσαι ῥᾷον εἰς τὸ ὑποφέρειν.

Look at it again.
0 x
Γελᾷ δ' ὁ μωρός, κἄν τι μὴ γέλοιον ᾖ
(Menander, Γνῶμαι μονόστιχοι 108)

Wes Wood
Posts: 692
Joined: September 20th, 2013, 8:18 pm

Re: Xenophon, The Frugal Estate Manager, Chapter 2

Post by Wes Wood » January 13th, 2015, 1:38 pm

Stephen Hughes wrote:Phrase adding fail ! ! ! ! !
I didn't notice there was a mistake until you changed the font. I was noticing the "to learn" part. I found it punny.

I will catch up and revise and then go back to our other ongoing discussion.
0 x
Ἀσπάζομαι μὲν καὶ φιλῶ, πείσομαι δὲ μᾶλλον τῷ θεῷ ἢ ὑμῖν.-Ἀπολογία Σωκράτους 29δ

Post Reply

Return to “Other Greek Texts”