Quoting bible verse in biblical greek

Stephen Hughes
Posts: 3323
Joined: February 26th, 2013, 7:12 am

Handwritten Greek

Post by Stephen Hughes » July 28th, 2014, 10:01 pm

Shirley Rollinson wrote:You could do it like an inscription, all caps, and no spaces between words, words carrying on to the next line without a hyphen :-)
e.g.
YOUCOULDDOITLIKEANINSCRI
PTIONALLCAPSANDNOSPACE
SBETWEENWORDSWORDSC
ARRYINGONTOTHENEXTLINE
WITHOUTAHYPHEN
That would be like the most original way of writing the Greek. What we are used to in type-set printed editions is convenient and standardised.

If you would like to see what the Greek of the New Testament was written like early on, you could search online for "P52" or "P46". The science of ancient handwriting is paleography, as you might be aware. You could search for "Greek Paleography".

In my opinion, I think that some of the Byzantine handwritten manuscripts are the most beautiful. Search "Byzantine Paleography". It's like the difference these days between handwriting and printing.

I suggest styling the verses after a form of handwriting (early or late), rather than after a standardised machine/computer font.
0 x


Γελᾷ δ' ὁ μωρός, κἄν τι μὴ γέλοιον ᾖ
(Menander, Γνῶμαι μονόστιχοι 108)

RandallButh
Posts: 1011
Joined: May 13th, 2011, 4:01 am

Re: Quoting bible verse in biblical greek

Post by RandallButh » July 29th, 2014, 1:22 am

Back in the first century alot of people would write ιωανου or ιωανης.
Westcott and Hort used to spell that way, before Nestle thought to change it.

Just a thought: before writing stuff on the body, try reading the whole Greek Bible.
0 x

George F Somsel
Posts: 172
Joined: May 9th, 2011, 10:11 am

Re: Quoting bible verse in biblical greek

Post by George F Somsel » July 29th, 2014, 2:45 am

Why attempt to describe how koine was written when you can look at it.
http://codexsinaiticus.org/en/manuscript.aspx?book=33
0 x
george
gfsomsel



… search for truth, hear truth,
learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth,
defend the truth till death.



- Jan Hus

ed krentz
Posts: 64
Joined: February 22nd, 2012, 5:34 pm
Location: Chicago, IL

Re: Quoting bible verse in biblical greek

Post by ed krentz » July 29th, 2014, 9:58 am

You might just follow the convention of Aland in the NTG 28, put the citation either into bold face or italics.

Ed Krentz
0 x
Edgar Krentz
Prof. Emeritus of NT
Lutheran School of Theology at Chicago

pmander
Posts: 23
Joined: July 25th, 2014, 12:44 pm

Re: Quoting bible verse in biblical greek

Post by pmander » July 29th, 2014, 2:19 pm

Thank you for all the answers!

I have heard from my teacher that koine was used to be written like this, I just didn't know where to find a good source of how it actually looked. That Codex Sinaiticus looks like a winner. I will not be using quotes, it will just be written as it is (altough I might try and correct any typing errors which they have tried to correct in the verses.)

Looks pretty fantastic to me (see attached images).

Joh 8:12 seems to have been corrected in a couple of places. In http://codexsinaiticus.org/en/manuscrip ... omSlider=0 I can see what errors there is in the transcription. I have tried to correct any mistakes in John 8:12 by copypasting the right letter from the same verse and moved some things around, so it is the same handwriting (the original is in the link above). I have uploaded my edited results to this post so that you can have a look at it, if you may.

The other ones looks pretty good as they are (I think), and the transcription on the Codex Sinaiticus page didn't show any errors. You think they look all right? Anything you think when you see this? Anything I should know?
Attachments
joh 8.12 edit1.jpg
Joh 8:12, edited with paint (bet they would've used it if they could)
joh 8.12 edit1.jpg (48.93 KiB) Viewed 2314 times
1joh 2.10.jpg
1 John 2:10 unedited.
1joh 2.10.jpg (36.79 KiB) Viewed 2314 times
rev 22.5a.jpg
Revelations 22:5 unedited.
rev 22.5a.jpg (46.32 KiB) Viewed 2314 times
0 x
Peter Mänder

Shirley Rollinson
Posts: 335
Joined: June 4th, 2011, 6:19 pm
Location: New Mexico
Contact:

Re: Quoting bible verse in biblical greek

Post by Shirley Rollinson » July 29th, 2014, 6:53 pm

pmander wrote:Thank you for all the answers!

I have heard from my teacher that koine was used to be written like this, I just didn't know where to find a good source of how it actually looked. That Codex Sinaiticus looks like a winner. I will not be using quotes, it will just be written as it is (altough I might try and correct any typing errors which they have tried to correct in the verses.)

Looks pretty fantastic to me (see attached images).

Joh 8:12 seems to have been corrected in a couple of places. In http://codexsinaiticus.org/en/manuscrip ... omSlider=0 I can see what errors there is in the transcription. I have tried to correct any mistakes in John 8:12 by copypasting the right letter from the same verse and moved some things around, so it is the same handwriting (the original is in the link above). I have uploaded my edited results to this post so that you can have a look at it, if you may.

The other ones looks pretty good as they are (I think), and the transcription on the Codex Sinaiticus page didn't show any errors. You think they look all right? Anything you think when you see this? Anything I should know?
Handwritten texts generally use abbreviations, which make them quite difficult to read.
0 x

David Lim
Posts: 901
Joined: June 6th, 2011, 6:55 am

Re: Quoting bible verse in biblical greek

Post by David Lim » July 30th, 2014, 3:51 am

RandallButh wrote:Just a thought: before writing stuff on the body, try reading the whole Greek Bible.
I second this, and would like to assume it includes the LXX. Important things there! :)
0 x
δαυιδ λιμ

Stephen Hughes
Posts: 3323
Joined: February 26th, 2013, 7:12 am

Re: Quoting bible verse in biblical greek

Post by Stephen Hughes » July 30th, 2014, 5:23 am

pmander wrote:The other ones looks pretty good as they are (I think), and the transcription on the Codex Sinaiticus page didn't show any errors. You think they look all right? Anything you think when you see this? Anything I should know?
I'm not very experienced in reading the handwriting, but it seems that there is a spelling mistake on the second last line of the picture of John 8:12. ΑΛΛΕΖΕΙΤΟ ΑΛΛΕΞΕΙΤΟ. The letter that is needed is third last letter of the first line of Revelations 22:5 that you have uploaded.

I personally wouldn't put the narrator's voice in, only the words of Christ - like what is put on stained-glass windows. If, however, you do put the whole verse, then the line above and after ΠΑΛΙ and above IC are both significant. Not all of what you have in the picture is the verse you want - but perhaps now you are thinking of using the manuscript as a stencil.

In the picture of 1 John 2:10, the section you want starts just right of centre on line 3. The supralinear stroke at the end of ΑΓΑΠΩ is significant. The words "ἐν αὐτῷ" appear to be missing from the text that you have shown.

The text of revelations 22:5 that you want starts in the middle of the first line. The second last letter of the first line is an omicron, not a high-point. The supra-linear stroke at the end of line 3 is significant. The thing that looks like a forward slash under the Κ at the end of the fourth row is significant too. The third letter of the fifth line is the same as the third letter of the fourth line (i.e. it is not a Γ). The lines over the ΚC and the ΘC in the sixth row are both significant. The second last letter of the seventh line is a beta, not a kappa. The last letter of the eighth line is a supralinear C (lunate sigma), not an omicron. What you have shown here cuts of the last part of the verse - ΝΑΙΩΝΩΝ.

Perhaps other will be able to find further points you should take care about.
0 x
Γελᾷ δ' ὁ μωρός, κἄν τι μὴ γέλοιον ᾖ
(Menander, Γνῶμαι μονόστιχοι 108)

pmander
Posts: 23
Joined: July 25th, 2014, 12:44 pm

Re: Quoting bible verse in biblical greek

Post by pmander » July 30th, 2014, 8:06 am

Shirley Rollinson wrote:Handwritten texts generally use abbreviations, which make them quite difficult to read.
Well as long as it is not impossible or blatantly wrong I think I'll be happy even if there are some abbreviations. Do you have any specific in mind which are difficult in the texts I have uploaded?
David Lim wrote:
RandallButh wrote:Just a thought: before writing stuff on the body, try reading the whole Greek Bible.
I second this, and would like to assume it includes the LXX. Important things there! :)
I might do that in my studies, but for this I will take any help I can since I will get the tattoo before I have learned everything I need to know to do this myself (which may sound stupid, but I trust this can be done by the help, support and LOVE of others)
Stephen Hughes wrote:I'm not very experienced in reading the handwriting, but it seems that there is a spelling mistake on the second last line of the picture of John 8:12. ΑΛΛΕΖΕΙΤΟ ΑΛΛΕΞΕΙΤΟ. The letter that is needed is third last letter of the first line of Revelations 22:5 that you have uploaded.

I personally wouldn't put the narrator's voice in, only the words of Christ - like what is put on stained-glass windows. If, however, you do put the whole verse, then the line above and after ΠΑΛΙ and above IC are both significant. Not all of what you have in the picture is the verse you want - but perhaps now you are thinking of using the manuscript as a stencil.

In the picture of 1 John 2:10, the section you want starts just right of centre on line 3. The supralinear stroke at the end of ΑΓΑΠΩ is significant. The words "ἐν αὐτῷ" appear to be missing from the text that you have shown.

The text of revelations 22:5 that you want starts in the middle of the first line. The second last letter of the first line is an omicron, not a high-point. The supra-linear stroke at the end of line 3 is significant. The thing that looks like a forward slash under the Κ at the end of the fourth row is significant too. The third letter of the fifth line is the same as the third letter of the fourth line (i.e. it is not a Γ). The lines over the ΚC and the ΘC in the sixth row are both significant. The second last letter of the seventh line is a beta, not a kappa. The last letter of the eighth line is a supralinear C (lunate sigma), not an omicron. What you have shown here cuts of the last part of the verse - ΝΑΙΩΝΩΝ.

Perhaps other will be able to find further points you should take care about.
This is fantastic stuff Stephen. Thank you so much. I will sit down with this a couple of days and try to understand what can be done using this post. I will then upload my results

It is also in my closest thoughts to adjust the texts with some editing and make a stencil that works on the surface which will be the tattoo artists workspace.

I like the idea of using only Christ's words but I don't mind the narrators voice as well. For me the three (three is important since it symbolises the trinity) texts represent the light in faith (John 8:12), hope (Rev 22:5) and love (1 John 2:10). For me that light comes from Christ, and the texts are trying to explain that, and even when the narrator explains that Jesus "is turning to them" (us?) to say, it's important, since I believe that he still turns to us in the same way today as he did to "them". But it's just a personal preference I guess, to keep those narrated parts as well.
0 x
Peter Mänder

pmander
Posts: 23
Joined: July 25th, 2014, 12:44 pm

Re: Quoting bible verse in biblical greek

Post by pmander » August 1st, 2014, 7:02 am

Stephen Hughes wrote: I personally wouldn't put the narrator's voice in, only the words of Christ - like what is put on stained-glass windows. If, however, you do put the whole verse, then the line above and after ΠΑΛΙ and above IC are both significant. Not all of what you have in the picture is the verse you want - but perhaps now you are thinking of using the manuscript as a stencil.

In the picture of 1 John 2:10, the section you want starts just right of centre on line 3. The supralinear stroke at the end of ΑΓΑΠΩ is significant. The words "ἐν αὐτῷ" appear to be missing from the text that you have shown.

The text of revelations 22:5 that you want starts in the middle of the first line. The second last letter of the first line is an omicron, not a high-point. The supra-linear stroke at the end of line 3 is significant. The thing that looks like a forward slash under the Κ at the end of the fourth row is significant too. The third letter of the fifth line is the same as the third letter of the fourth line (i.e. it is not a Γ). The lines over the ΚC and the ΘC in the sixth row are both significant. The second last letter of the seventh line is a beta, not a kappa. The last letter of the eighth line is a supralinear C (lunate sigma), not an omicron. What you have shown here cuts of the last part of the verse - ΝΑΙΩΝΩΝ.

Perhaps other will be able to find further points you should take care about.
I have looked at your post, and worked with the texts and tried to make them more easy to read and also "thinner" so they can be beside each other on my back. That means I have cut the lines in different places, trying to use logic and cutting the lines as much as where the scribe has done so.

If you see anything that looks odd or just plainly wrong in the uploaded edits, I would be glad if you let me know.

The thought are to use these as stencils.
Attachments
joh 8.12 edit1 wrk.jpg
Edited joh 8:12
joh 8.12 edit1 wrk.jpg (46.68 KiB) Viewed 2243 times
1joh2.10 v2 - wrkc.jpg
Edited 1 joh 2:10
1joh2.10 v2 - wrkc.jpg (27.4 KiB) Viewed 2243 times
rev22.5 v4workg.jpg
Edited rev 22:5
rev22.5 v4workg.jpg (49.42 KiB) Viewed 2243 times
0 x
Peter Mänder

Post Reply

Return to “Other”