One of the arguments that Jeremias brings forth to counter the claim made by Streeter and others that the variant ἐλθέτω τὸ πνεῦμα σου τὸ ἅγιον ἐφʼ ἡμᾶς καὶ καθαρισάτω ἡμᾶς is original to Luke's version of the LP is that its form/structure is strikingly different/varies considerably from that of the other petitions found there. Is this observation correct? And if it is, is it a fatal one? If not, why not?
Jeffrey
nauthenticity of ἐλθέτω τὸ πνεῦμα σου τὸ ἅγιον ἐφʼ ἡμᾶς καὶ
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Please quote the Greek text you are discussing directly in your post if it is reasonably short - do not ask people to look it up. This is not a beginner's forum, competence in Greek is assumed.
Please quote the Greek text you are discussing directly in your post if it is reasonably short - do not ask people to look it up. This is not a beginner's forum, competence in Greek is assumed.
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nauthenticity of ἐλθέτω τὸ πνεῦμα σου τὸ ἅγιον ἐφʼ ἡμᾶς καὶ
Jeffrey B. Gibson
6037 N. Fairfield Ave
Chicago, Il. 60659
jgibson000@comcast.net
6037 N. Fairfield Ave
Chicago, Il. 60659
jgibson000@comcast.net
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Re: nauthenticity of ἐλθέτω τὸ πνεῦμα σου τὸ ἅγιον ἐφʼ ἡμᾶς
Would you mind contextualising this quote please?
Γελᾷ δ' ὁ μωρός, κἄν τι μὴ γέλοιον ᾖ
(Menander, Γνῶμαι μονόστιχοι 108)
(Menander, Γνῶμαι μονόστιχοι 108)
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Re: nauthenticity of ἐλθέτω τὸ πνεῦμα σου τὸ ἅγιον ἐφʼ ἡμᾶς
Jeremias, New Testament Theology[ (1971) 194: "This petition for the spirit is certainly not original ...; the weak attestation, the difference in the position in which it appears, and above all its form, which varies from the structure of the other petitions, exclude this. It may, rather, derive from the baptismal liturgy in which the Lord's Prayer and the petition for the spirit were connected."
Jeffrey
Jeffrey
Jeffrey B. Gibson
6037 N. Fairfield Ave
Chicago, Il. 60659
jgibson000@comcast.net
6037 N. Fairfield Ave
Chicago, Il. 60659
jgibson000@comcast.net
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Re: nauthenticity of ἐλθέτω τὸ πνεῦμα σου τὸ ἅγιον ἐφʼ ἡμᾶς
With the usual caveat concerning text critical issues, let me suggest that the premise of the argument is flawed. It assumes that the language and structure of the petition is fixed in a certain way, so that a petition, to be included, has to follow that pattern. Purely from the perspective of language production, that is not the case -- anything can be stated any way. Having said that, we do have third person imperatives and an arrangement that seems to mimic the other petitions. I see nothing in the language or structure which would exclude it, so that the determination must be made on other grounds.
N.E. Barry Hofstetter, M.A., Th.M.
Ph.D. Student U of FL
Instructor of Latin
Jack M. Barrack Hebrew Academy
καὶ σὺ τὸ σὸν ποιήσεις κἀγὼ τὸ ἐμόν. ἆρον τὸ σὸν καὶ ὕπαγε.
Ph.D. Student U of FL
Instructor of Latin
Jack M. Barrack Hebrew Academy
καὶ σὺ τὸ σὸν ποιήσεις κἀγὼ τὸ ἐμόν. ἆρον τὸ σὸν καὶ ὕπαγε.
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Re: inauthenticity of ἐλθέτω τὸ πνεῦμα σου τὸ ἅγιον ἐφʼ ἡμᾶς
I agree with you, Barry ( although the way the LP is set out in Luke does seem to show an intent to conform the structure of the petitions to one another in a balanced way).. And I say something to this effect (though perhaps not as strongly as I should) in what I have just uploaded to academia.edu, i.,e. a draft of an excursus on the question of the authenticity of the variant.
It is available here.
https://www.academia.edu/s/d324309a54?source=link
Comments upon, and criticisms of, what I have written are welcome.
Jeffrey
It is available here.
https://www.academia.edu/s/d324309a54?source=link
Comments upon, and criticisms of, what I have written are welcome.
Jeffrey
Jeffrey B. Gibson
6037 N. Fairfield Ave
Chicago, Il. 60659
jgibson000@comcast.net
6037 N. Fairfield Ave
Chicago, Il. 60659
jgibson000@comcast.net