Hello everybody,
If in a conditional irrealis clause the timeframe of the protasis is 'earlier' than that of the apodosis, is this expressed by using a different time of the verb? For instance: In a sentence as: If I had studied well, I would have past the exam, does Greek use twice an ind. aorist?
Thanks!
Time in the conditional clause
Re: Time in the conditional clause
Just a small note: "... I would have passed the exam ..."Rossini wrote:Hello everybody,
If in a conditional irrealis clause the timeframe of the protasis is 'earlier' than that of the apodosis, is this expressed by using a different time of the verb? For instance: In a sentence as: If I had studied well, I would have past the exam, does Greek use twice an ind. aorist?
Thanks!
δαυιδ λιμ
Re: Time in the conditional clause
In your proposed example, ancient Greek would use an aorist indicative in both clauses, and ἃν would be prefixed or added to the aorist of the apodosis. εἰ ἐμελήτησα, ἐξέφυγον ἂν τὸ ἐλέγχος. It's clear from the formulation which action must have come first (consequences don't ordinarily precede causes). It would have been more helpful, I think, if you'd given a Greek example for your question.Rossini wrote:Hello everybody,
If in a conditional irrealis clause the timeframe of the protasis is 'earlier' than that of the apodosis, is this expressed by using a different time of the verb? For instance: In a sentence as: If I had studied well, I would have past the exam, does Greek use twice an ind. aorist?
I might just note also, that you really ought not to be using a single name to identify yourself.
οὔτοι ἀπ’ ἀρχῆς πάντα θεοὶ θνητοῖς ὑπέδειξαν,
ἀλλὰ χρόνῳ ζητέοντες ἐφευρίσκουσιν ἄμεινον. (Xenophanes, Fragment 16)
Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
ἀλλὰ χρόνῳ ζητέοντες ἐφευρίσκουσιν ἄμεινον. (Xenophanes, Fragment 16)
Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
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- Posts: 2159
- Joined: May 6th, 2011, 1:48 pm
Re: Time in the conditional clause
And let me add to Carl's excellent response that this construction is usually called "past contrary to fact."cwconrad wrote:
In your proposed example, ancient Greek would use an aorist indicative in both clauses, and ἃν would be prefixed or added to the aorist of the apodosis. εἰ ἐμελήτησα, ἐξέφυγον ἂν τὸ ἐλέγχος. It's clear from the formulation which action must have come first (consequences don't ordinarily precede causes). It would have been more helpful, I think, if you'd given a Greek example for your question.
I might just note also, that you really ought not to be using a single name to identify yourself.
I've occasionally puzzled over the fact that Greek uses the indicative in contrary to facts, but Latin uses the subjunctive. Greek uses the subjunctive for the protasis of future more vivid clauses -- Latin uses the future or the future perfect indicative. I haven't lost any sleep over it -- it's not a hurricane or the economy, but I wonder if anyone has written on this or come up with any theories-- Carl?
N.E. Barry Hofstetter, M.A., Th.M.
Ph.D. Student U of FL
Instructor of Latin
Jack M. Barrack Hebrew Academy
καὶ σὺ τὸ σὸν ποιήσεις κἀγὼ τὸ ἐμόν. ἆρον τὸ σὸν καὶ ὕπαγε.
Ph.D. Student U of FL
Instructor of Latin
Jack M. Barrack Hebrew Academy
καὶ σὺ τὸ σὸν ποιήσεις κἀγὼ τὸ ἐμόν. ἆρον τὸ σὸν καὶ ὕπαγε.
Re: Time in the conditional clause
My theory -- τίς ἃν εἰκάσειεν; -- Greek has a secret ingredient whereof Latin has no inkling: the particle ἂν indefinitizes (is that a word?) the specific and subjunctivizes (is that a word?) the secondary indicative tenses (imperfect & aorist): ἐφίλουν ἄν = amarem; ἐφίλησα ἀν = ama(vi)ssem. No? I didn't think you'd like the theoryBarry Hofstetter wrote:I've occasionally puzzled over the fact that Greek uses the indicative in contrary to facts, but Latin uses the subjunctive. Greek uses the subjunctive for the protasis of future more vivid clauses -- Latin uses the future or the future perfect indicative. I haven't lost any sleep over it -- it's not a hurricane or the economy, but I wonder if anyone has written on this or come up with any theories-- Carl?
οὔτοι ἀπ’ ἀρχῆς πάντα θεοὶ θνητοῖς ὑπέδειξαν,
ἀλλὰ χρόνῳ ζητέοντες ἐφευρίσκουσιν ἄμεινον. (Xenophanes, Fragment 16)
Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
ἀλλὰ χρόνῳ ζητέοντες ἐφευρίσκουσιν ἄμεινον. (Xenophanes, Fragment 16)
Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
-
- Posts: 300
- Joined: May 6th, 2011, 6:30 pm
Re: Time in the conditional clause
The best example of a past contrary to fact condition in English is the old Three Stooges joke:...this construction is usually called "past contrary to fact."
ATTRACTIVE YOUNG LADY: "Strange men are following me!"
SHEMP: "They'd be strange if they didn't."