John 2:22 ὅτε οὖν ἠγέρθη ἐκ νεκρῶν, ἐμνήσθησαν οἱ μαθηταὶ αὐτοῦ ὅτι τοῦτο ἔλεγεν, καὶ ἐπίστευσαν τῇ γραφῇ καὶ τῷ λόγῳ ⸀ὃν εἶπεν ὁ Ἰησοῦς.
My question is, does the scope of εἶπεν extend to both τῇ γραφῇ and τῷ λόγῳ or to just τῷ λόγῳ?
Should it be understood as: Jesus spoke/said/read the word and the writing?
Or, should it be understood as: Jesus spoke/said the word only?
At first glance you may think that it can't incorporate both the word and the writing because of how you would expect for the verb to be used...
However, see Matthew 22:31. "Have you not read that which God spoke to you saying..."
Greek: περὶ δὲ τῆς ἀναστάσεως τῶν νεκρῶν οὐκ ἀνέγνωτε τὸ ῥηθὲν ὑμῖν ὑπὸ τοῦ θεοῦ λέγοντος·
This is a clear example of Jesus making a point that has a deeper meaning (which isn't necessarily within the interest of the question. I'm just pointing out that verbs can be used in ways we wouldn't think should be allowed...)
To reiterate my question, can the grammar allow for εἶπεν to be talking about both the word and the writing? Or is it ONLY limited to the word?
John 2:22 Jesus said the word, or the word and the writing?
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Re: John 2:22 Jesus said the word, or the word and the writing?
"They believed in the Scripture and in the word/message which Jesus spoke."
These are two separate things. Γραφή refers to the Scripture (Law, Prophets and Psalms, as it is called in the NT).
These are two separate things. Γραφή refers to the Scripture (Law, Prophets and Psalms, as it is called in the NT).
Jason A. Hare
The Hebrew Café
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Re: John 2:22 Jesus said the word, or the word and the writing?
Yeah, like this:Jason Hare wrote: ↑January 31st, 2018, 2:51 pm "They believed in the Scripture and in the word/message which Jesus spoke."
These are two separate things. Γραφή refers to the Scripture (Law, Prophets and Psalms, as it is called in the NT).
καὶ
v ἐπίστευσαν
o
τῇ γραφῇ
καὶ
τῷ λόγῳ ὃν εἶπεν ὁ Ἰησοῦς
καὶ
τῷ λόγῳ ὃν εἶπεν ὁ Ἰησοῦς
ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
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Re: John 2:22 Jesus said the word, or the word and the writing?
Thank you for your responses.
I'm wondering though is there any way to tell objectively where to draw the line for dependent clauses?
I'm wondering though is there any way to tell objectively where to draw the line for dependent clauses?
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Re: John 2:22 Jesus said the word, or the word and the writing?
The question you asked in the original post is one clue. Do people speak writings? Context and meaning are as important as syntax.PhillipLebsack wrote: ↑February 1st, 2018, 6:15 am I'm wondering though is there any way to tell objectively where to draw the line for dependent clauses?
ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
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Re: John 2:22 Jesus said the word, or the word and the writing?
Well, generally, yes. A dependent clause normally has a word which indicates that it's a subordinate clause. As you learn the language you learn these words.Jonathan Robie wrote: ↑February 1st, 2018, 10:45 amThe question you asked in the original post is one clue. Do people speak writings? Context and meaning are as important as syntax.PhillipLebsack wrote: ↑February 1st, 2018, 6:15 am I'm wondering though is there any way to tell objectively where to draw the line for dependent clauses?
N.E. Barry Hofstetter, M.A., Th.M.
Ph.D. Student U of FL
Instructor of Latin
Jack M. Barrack Hebrew Academy
καὶ σὺ τὸ σὸν ποιήσεις κἀγὼ τὸ ἐμόν. ἆρον τὸ σὸν καὶ ὕπαγε.
Ph.D. Student U of FL
Instructor of Latin
Jack M. Barrack Hebrew Academy
καὶ σὺ τὸ σὸν ποιήσεις κἀγὼ τὸ ἐμόν. ἆρον τὸ σὸν καὶ ὕπαγε.