γραφει τους λογους
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γραφει τους λογους
Ok...
So in my text book it says:
γραφει τους λογους - he writes the words
But when I look it up ( because I’m looking everything up on google transulte as I go to hear the pronunciation after I prounce it myself ) it is saying:
γράφει τις λέξεις - he writes the words
γραφει τους λογους - writes the reasons
Why?
If you think I should be using something else besides google translate for pronunciation - please let me know. I need it for my iPhone.
Thanks!
So in my text book it says:
γραφει τους λογους - he writes the words
But when I look it up ( because I’m looking everything up on google transulte as I go to hear the pronunciation after I prounce it myself ) it is saying:
γράφει τις λέξεις - he writes the words
γραφει τους λογους - writes the reasons
Why?
If you think I should be using something else besides google translate for pronunciation - please let me know. I need it for my iPhone.
Thanks!
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Re: γραφει τους λογους
Hi Scott,
Your textbook probably uses a variant of Erasmian pronunciation, which is an American's attempt to use a medieval Dutchman's notion of how ancient Greek was pronounced. For this particular phrase, Google Translate doesn't do too bad, but it didn't do so well on a few sentences of biblical Greek that I just tried.
There's more than one way to pronounce Greek. If you learn modern Greek pronunciation, some important words are really hard to distinguish. Many of us use some variant of Randall Buth's pronunciation. Here's a table showing how I pronounce Greek when I teach:
Greek Pronunciation
You might want to create your own document, showing the pronunciation you work out for various words. You can refer to it whenever you want to be consistent.
Your textbook probably uses a variant of Erasmian pronunciation, which is an American's attempt to use a medieval Dutchman's notion of how ancient Greek was pronounced. For this particular phrase, Google Translate doesn't do too bad, but it didn't do so well on a few sentences of biblical Greek that I just tried.
There's more than one way to pronounce Greek. If you learn modern Greek pronunciation, some important words are really hard to distinguish. Many of us use some variant of Randall Buth's pronunciation. Here's a table showing how I pronounce Greek when I teach:
Greek Pronunciation
You might want to create your own document, showing the pronunciation you work out for various words. You can refer to it whenever you want to be consistent.
ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/
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Re: γραφει τους λογους
What lexicon do you have ?But when I look it up ( because I’m looking everything up on google transulte as I go to hear the pronunciation after I prounce it myself ) it is saying:
γράφει τις λέξεις - he writes the words
γραφει τους λογους - writes the reasons
Why?
Regarding google translate. I don't see a Biblical Greek option and my guess is it is translating English to modern Greek. I don't know what lexicon it uses. Common or core uses of some words (perhaps many given the time involved) will have moved over time. λἐξη doesn't appear in the NT, and even in the Septuagint it's very much in the minority, with λὀγος being the preferred term in both.
Thx
D
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Re: γραφει τους λογους
Don’t use Google Translate for Koine Greek. It’s not set up for it, and modern Greek is too different.
Stephen C. Carlson, Ph.D.
Melbourne, Australia
Melbourne, Australia
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Re: γραφει τους λογους
So as I mentioned in my introduction post - I am a beginner.
https://www.ibiblio.org/bgreek/forum/vi ... =35&t=4765
You will see in that post 3 pictures - that is all I have so far so I haven’t purchased a lexicon yet. If you have suggestions I will take them.
Thanks for the pronunciation document Jonathan!
![Very Happy :D](./images/smilies/icon_e_biggrin.gif)
https://www.ibiblio.org/bgreek/forum/vi ... =35&t=4765
You will see in that post 3 pictures - that is all I have so far so I haven’t purchased a lexicon yet. If you have suggestions I will take them.
Thanks for the pronunciation document Jonathan!
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Re: γραφει τους λογους
So it looks like the attached picture is incorrect for Koine Greek then.
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Re: γραφει τους λογους
Hi Scott,
I would start with BDAG
A Greek - English Lexicon of the New Testament and other Early Christian Literature
revised and edited by Fredrick William Danker
called BDAG after the compilers, Bauer, Danker, Arndt and Gingrich.
For NT it's pretty much the standard. I use a bunch of others too but this is where I started and I still use it all the time.
Thx
D
I would start with BDAG
A Greek - English Lexicon of the New Testament and other Early Christian Literature
revised and edited by Fredrick William Danker
called BDAG after the compilers, Bauer, Danker, Arndt and Gingrich.
For NT it's pretty much the standard. I use a bunch of others too but this is where I started and I still use it all the time.
Thx
D
Re: γραφει τους λογους
Hi Scott,
There's the LSJ Abridged over at archive.org - https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dl ... 1/page/n11
You can also get access to the full LSJ over at Perseus: http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/tex ... entry%3D*a
There's the LSJ Abridged over at archive.org - https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dl ... 1/page/n11
You can also get access to the full LSJ over at Perseus: http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/tex ... entry%3D*a
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Re: γραφει τους λογους
Thanks Daniel!Daniel Semler wrote: ↑March 23rd, 2019, 10:34 pm Hi Scott,
I would start with BDAG
A Greek - English Lexicon of the New Testament and other Early Christian Literature
revised and edited by Fredrick William Danker
called BDAG after the compilers, Bauer, Danker, Arndt and Gingrich.
I purchased the one for Logos Bible. Works good on the iPhone and iPad app.
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Re: γραφει τους λογους
Well, it's not the way they pronounced Koine Greek back then. But it's a common way for people who learn in Western seminaries now. It kind of hurts my ears ... but I hear it a lot.Scott Verreault wrote: ↑March 23rd, 2019, 7:41 pm So it looks like the attached picture is incorrect for Koine Greek then.
I think you will find Greek more natural with a pronunciation closer to modern Greek, any one of the common variants on restored Koine pronunciation. If you are interested in the variety of pronunciation used today, here's a quote from an earlier thread that may be helpful.
Jonathan Robie wrote: ↑October 24th, 2015, 3:09 pmAs Tim Finney asks, "how is modern English pronounced?" There's some variety.Stephen Hughes wrote:I have said something about the changes and survival of η as "e" or "i" in Modern Greek, as an indication of variety, rather than conformity in another thread just now, seeing as it goes beyond what is being looked for here. The main point is that η among all other vowels is the one that has the least standardisation (the other and to a lesser extent is υ as "i" or "ου").
A couple of useful links:
As the last points out:
- The Great Pronunciation Debate (SBL 2011)
- Four Major Conventions of Greek Pronunciation
- Koine Greek Pronunciation (Randall Buth)
- RBL Review of “On the Pronunciation and Interpretation of ‘Biblical Greek’: A Re-assessment in Light of the Papyri” (Michael Theophilos)
Buth, Theophilos, and modern are all putting on the same green.As regards Greek pronunciation, the disputed letters in the period of the NT are the following:
Six consonants: β γ δ ζ θ χ
Three vowels: η υ ω
Seven diphthongs: αυ ευ ηυ αι ει οι υι
ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/