public domain audio recording of Matthew in ancient Greek (the non-modern pronunciation)

Biblical Greek morphology and syntax, aspect, linguistics, discourse analysis, and related topics
RandallButh
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Re: public domain audio recording of Matthew in ancient Greek (the non-modern pronunciation)

Post by RandallButh » June 6th, 2018, 4:56 pm

Well, if that's what your teacher insists on
Like I said, I've never understood the obsession to get it wrong, to create a distinctly non-Greek Greek NT. See the PDF at biblicallanguagecenter that documents the problems.

Sort of like a sales person proudly claiming "This is real fox leather, it says so on the label right here "faux leather". [This really happened to two of my grown children when shopping in California.]
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m_bauer
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Re: public domain audio recording of Matthew in ancient Greek (the non-modern pronunciation)

Post by m_bauer » June 6th, 2018, 5:22 pm

RandallButh wrote:
June 6th, 2018, 12:02 pm
But is there a good free audio with Erasmian pronunciation? This is about as good as I can find
Not everything that is free should be used.
Hi, I only listened a sentence of M. Robinson's, what do you think about Marilyn's reading? The accent is ok and one notes, that it is devotional. I had nothing against it, besides that it is a voice of woman.
So, according to you I should stay with her?
*** Thanks for that link, I will check that.

Thanks in advance


Moderator's note: one sentence removed for unintelligibility and another "note to moderators" removed as irrelevant to the discussion. -- BH
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m_bauer
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Re: public domain audio recording of Matthew in ancient Greek (the non-modern pronunciation)

Post by m_bauer » June 7th, 2018, 2:04 am

Thanks,
hm, neither Matthew nor public domain between, though. That is not yet off-topic to the thread question, if it just wanted to describe the
-NT-non-modern pronunciation,
-public domain
state of the art by its negative.
So please let's restrict the thread to what is there and how to live with it! So far, I counted two options, of which the one of Marilyn Phemister is not covered, yet.
Maybe a (incomplete) word to her recording? Is it still early choice, right now?
Thanks in advance?
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RandallButh
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Re: public domain audio recording of Matthew in ancient Greek (the non-modern pronunciation)

Post by RandallButh » June 7th, 2018, 5:07 am

m_bauer wrote:
June 6th, 2018, 5:22 pm
Hi, I only listened a sentence of M. Robinson's, what do you think about Marilyn's reading? The accent is ok and one notes, that it is devotional. I had nothing against it, besides that it is a voice of woman.
So, according to you I should stay with her?
*** Thanks for that link, I will check that.

Thanks in advance
It appears that you have not yet read the PDF and applied its data and discussion to Marilyn's readings.
Perhaps that PDF is the link that you referred to?
>
I would recommend reading through the 12-page PDF at biblicallanguagecenter.com for a discussion of various options with supporting documentation: https://www.biblicallanguagecenter.com/ ... unciation/
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m_bauer
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Re: public domain audio recording of Matthew in ancient Greek (the non-modern pronunciation)

Post by m_bauer » June 7th, 2018, 8:27 am

Hi once more,
searched the pdf document for marily and ended up in "primarily". (;
Well then, I hold from the bible society, that both, if not M. Robinson then Marilyn Phymister,
would do.
Thanks so far to everybody.
And excuses me for not having stayed to beginners forum.
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RandallButh
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Re: public domain audio recording of Matthew in ancient Greek (the non-modern pronunciation)

Post by RandallButh » June 7th, 2018, 8:59 am

The relatively short PDF is meant to be read and understood so that the data and discussions may be applied to questions in the field. I doubt if Marilyn' s name would need citing in the PDF, so there is no point in searching for it, but every point in reading the document.
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RandallButh
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Re: public domain audio recording of Matthew in ancient Greek (the non-modern pronunciation)

Post by RandallButh » June 7th, 2018, 9:02 am

No, I don't recommend Marilyn's reading but you must read the PDF to understand why.
Says I, as I eat my Mousaka with nice rembetico music the background.
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Devenios Doulenios
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Re: public domain audio recording of Matthew in ancient Greek (the non-modern pronunciation)

Post by Devenios Doulenios » June 7th, 2018, 9:08 am

The group may be interested in the note on pronunciation I put on the Resources page of my blog, Let Ancient Voices Speak (http://letancientvoicesspeak.wordpress.com):
A Note on Greek Pronunciation

There are several accents used for Ancient Greek: a reconstructed Attic or Classical one, the traditional Erasmian taught in most seminaries and universities, and one based more or less on the Modern Greek pronunciation. From the pedagogical standpoint, there are more disadvantages than advantages to using the first two. The reconstructed Attic attempts a pitch accent, which Classical is supposed to have used. This is possibly correct, but it simply does not sound pleasant when spoken, at least to me. And, it has failed to win much acceptance among teachers of Greek. As for Erasmian (There are several varieties.), there is no evidence it was ever used by native Greek speakers in any period of Ancient Greek. It is completely artificial. Most readings I have heard using it do not sound very fluid, and it does not lend itself well to an approach using living language methodologies. The argument that it helps students distinguish some sounds better fails in that natural languages develop their sound structures to aid communication, not for teaching purposes.

This leaves us with one of the ones based on Modern Greek. This approach has several advantages and few if any disadvantages. First, there is abundant evidence from Greek inscriptions and secular papyri that as early as the 5th century B.C. the distinctive sounds of this pronunciation had already started to develop. We also see this development in some variant readings of early New Testament manuscripts. By the beginning of the 2nd century A.D., the development of this sound system was basically complete. Therefore this accent is certainly ancient, more authentic, and respects the culture of the Greeks more so than the others, in my opinion. There are at present three options: the full Modern Greek system, a modified one used by John Simon in his recording of the Koine NT at GreekNewTestamentAudio (see below), and the Restored Koine of Randall Buth and the Biblical Language Center. Any of these choices just mentioned is preferable to the traditional Erasmian. If the student is allowed a choice of accents in class, by all means use one of these three. You will find that repeated listening to audio done in a Modern accent, combined with speaking practice and reading aloud, will soon help you develop it correctly and if you are not already skilled in it, you can become so fairly rapidly. I personally started doing this back in 2010 after being taught Erasmian in my first Greek studies forty years earlier, and the transition was not that difficult. I highly recommend this choice.
As you see, I do not recommend Erasmian at all, and in the descriptions of resources for audio that follows on the blog, I do not link to any of the existing Erasmian choices.

But having said that, I have always said, "Any spoken Ancient Greek is better than none".

Αs it happens, Marilyn's is the first one I found online when searching for resources for audio years ago. I downloaded it and listened to it some, but just could not get comfortable with it. While I respect the hard work and time spent on it (I understand she was losing her eyesight and did it to be able to keep working with the Greek NT.), I just cannot recommend it for the reasons stated in my note above.

Δεβένιος Δουλένιος
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"τὴν ζωὴν καὶ τὸν θάνατον δέδωκα πρὸ προσώπου ὑμῶν τὴν εὐλογίαν καὶ τὴν κατάραν ἔκλεξαι τὴν ζωήν ἵνα ζῇς σὺ καὶ τὸ σπέρμα σου"-Δευτερονόμιον 30:19

"Ὁδοὶ δύο εἰσί, μία τῆς ζωῆς καὶ μία τοῦ θανάτου."--Διδαχή Α, α'

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