Aorist indicative with future temporal reference

Exploring Albert Rijksbaron's book, The Syntax and Semantics of the Verb in Classical Greek: An Introduction, to see how it would need to be adapted for Koine Greek. Much of the focus will be on finding Koine examples to illustrate the same points Rijksbaron illustrates with Classical examples, and places where Koine Greek diverges from Classical Greek.
Barry Hofstetter
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Re: Aorist indicative with future temporal reference

Post by Barry Hofstetter » January 31st, 2020, 5:14 pm

Stirling Bartholomew wrote:
January 31st, 2020, 2:25 pm

On the other hand the NT Greek discussion about Verbal Aspect appears to be very confused. People writing apparently without any framework whatsoever; cherry picking disconnect (context free) ideas a little from here and there. People citing authors and ideas from frameworks they do not understand. I have said this before. You should avoid this mess and just learn to read Greek. Direct encounters with Greek Texts are much more helpful than monographs on obscure issues.
ἀμὴν, ἀδελφέ!
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N.E. Barry Hofstetter
Instructor of Latin
Jack M. Barrack Hebrew Academy
καὶ σὺ τὸ σὸν ποιήσεις κἀγὼ τὸ ἐμόν. ἆρον τὸ σὸν καὶ ὕπαγε.

Jason Hare
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Re: Aorist indicative with future temporal reference

Post by Jason Hare » February 1st, 2020, 9:18 am

Barry Hofstetter wrote:
January 31st, 2020, 5:14 pm
ἀμὴν, ἀδελφέ!
Accents, my friend! The pause brings us ἀμήν, since it is followed by a comma, and ἀδελφός takes its accent on the antepenult in the vocative singular (ἄδελφε). ♥
Sorry for the nerdiness.
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Jason A. Hare
Tel Aviv, Israel

Barry Hofstetter
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Joined: May 6th, 2011, 1:48 pm

Re: Aorist indicative with future temporal reference

Post by Barry Hofstetter » February 1st, 2020, 12:21 pm

Jason Hare wrote:
February 1st, 2020, 9:18 am
Barry Hofstetter wrote:
January 31st, 2020, 5:14 pm
ἀμὴν, ἀδελφέ!
Accents, my friend! The pause brings us ἀμήν, since it is followed by a comma, and ἀδελφός takes its accent on the antepenult in the vocative singular (ἄδελφε). ♥
Sorry for the nerdiness.
ἀμήν, ἄδελφέ μου νέρδε.
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N.E. Barry Hofstetter
Instructor of Latin
Jack M. Barrack Hebrew Academy
καὶ σὺ τὸ σὸν ποιήσεις κἀγὼ τὸ ἐμόν. ἆρον τὸ σὸν καὶ ὕπαγε.

RandallButh
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Re: Aorist indicative with future temporal reference

Post by RandallButh » February 2nd, 2020, 6:24 am

I wonder if people make too much of the "spatially/temporally remote" thing.
For the umteenth time, the whole "spatial" thing is a mistake, a kind of self-deception. "Spatial" is being used by these authors as a metaphor for "time." But then they forget what their metaphor represents and pretend that using "spatial" justifies a claim that there is no time in the Greek indicative. Thirty years of nonsense. But the responsibility and fault is against the rest of the field that should simply tell students that "spatial" is unviable as a grammatical explanation of the Greek indicative. "Spatial" in these discussions has been a simple misuse of metaphor.
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Stephen Nelson
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Re: Aorist indicative with future temporal reference

Post by Stephen Nelson » March 2nd, 2020, 2:48 am

And what does this illustrate exactly?
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Peng Huiguo
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Re: Aorist indicative with future temporal reference

Post by Peng Huiguo » March 2nd, 2020, 3:01 am

Does that qualify as an aorist indic in future?
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Barry Hofstetter
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Re: Aorist indicative with future temporal reference

Post by Barry Hofstetter » March 2nd, 2020, 12:55 pm

Peng Huiguo wrote:
March 2nd, 2020, 3:01 am
Does that qualify as an aorist indic in future?
ποιήσεις as the editor has restored it is future indicative. Lit. "You will do well having written to me concerning your (pl) well being..." The aorist participle being here the practical equivalent of a conditional clause, "You will do well if you write to me..." Or we could take καλῶς ποιήσεις as the equivalent of "please" (cf. Lat. amābō tē) and render the participle as an imperative in English, "please write to me..."

Note the parallel with 3 Jn 6:

οὓς καλῶς ποιήσεις προπέμψας ἀξίως τοῦ θεοῦ...
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N.E. Barry Hofstetter
Instructor of Latin
Jack M. Barrack Hebrew Academy
καὶ σὺ τὸ σὸν ποιήσεις κἀγὼ τὸ ἐμόν. ἆρον τὸ σὸν καὶ ὕπαγε.

Peng Huiguo
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Joined: April 28th, 2019, 2:02 am

Re: Aorist indicative with future temporal reference

Post by Peng Huiguo » March 2nd, 2020, 2:09 pm

Thanks Barry I forgot participle has no "mood" (slap forehead) nor absolute time.
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