1 Pet 1:8 which verb does ἄρτι construe with?

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Stephen Carlson
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1 Pet 1:8 which verb does ἄρτι construe with?

Post by Stephen Carlson » May 7th, 2020, 2:17 am

1 Pet 1:8 wrote:... εἰς ὃν ἄρτι μὴ ὁρῶντες πιστεύοντες δὲ άγαλλιᾶσθε ...
Normally ἄρτι is construed with ὁρῶντες, despite the placement of the negative μή and the redundancy of the present tense. Does it make any sense to construe ἄρτι with ἀγαλλιᾶσθε (i.e., you exult right now)? This would treat the circumstantial participles (μὴ ὁρῶντες πιστεύοντες δέ) as one constituent.
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Jonathan Robie
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Re: 1 Pet 1:8 which verb does ἄρτι construe with?

Post by Jonathan Robie » May 9th, 2020, 9:23 am

Stephen Carlson wrote:
May 7th, 2020, 2:17 am
1 Pet 1:8 wrote:... εἰς ὃν ἄρτι μὴ ὁρῶντες πιστεύοντες δὲ άγαλλιᾶσθε ...
Normally ἄρτι is construed with ὁρῶντες, despite the placement of the negative μή and the redundancy of the present tense. Does it make any sense to construe ἄρτι with ἀγαλλιᾶσθε (i.e., you exult right now)? This would treat the circumstantial participles (μὴ ὁρῶντες πιστεύοντες δέ) as one constituent.
How do you read this against verse 6? The use of ἄρτι and ἀγαλλιᾶσθε in both places, in the same context, seems to suggest that ἄρτι refers to the same time in each case.
1 Pet 1:6-9" wrote:6 ἐν ᾧ ἀγαλλιᾶσθε, ὀλίγον ἄρτι εἰ δέον λυπηθέντες ἐν ποικίλοις πειρασμοῖς, 7 ἵνα τὸ δοκίμιον ὑμῶν τῆς πίστεως πολυτιμότερον χρυσίου τοῦ ἀπολλυμένου διὰ πυρὸς δὲ δοκιμαζομένου εὑρεθῇ εἰς ἔπαινον καὶ δόξαν καὶ τιμὴν ἐν ἀποκαλύψει Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ. 8 ὃν οὐκ ἰδόντες ἀγαπᾶτε, εἰς ὃν ἄρτι μὴ ὁρῶντες πιστεύοντες δὲ ἀγαλλιᾶσθε χαρᾷ ἀνεκλαλήτῳ καὶ δεδοξασμένῃ, 9 κομιζόμενοι τὸ τέλος τῆς πίστεως ὑμῶν σωτηρίαν ψυχῶν.
I'm wondering in general how adverbs interact with negation. A quick look pulled up two examples. Consider Acts 4:18:
Acts 4:18 wrote:καὶ καλέσαντες αὐτοὺς παρήγγειλαν τὸ καθόλου μὴ φθέγγεσθαι μηδὲ διδάσκειν ἐπὶ τῷ ὀνόματι τοῦ Ἰησοῦ.
I think the adverb καθόλου modifies both verbs (φθέγγεσθαι and διδάσκειν). Or Luke 17:31:
Luke 17:31 wrote: ἐν ἐκείνῃ τῇ ἡμέρᾳ ὃς ἔσται ἐπὶ τοῦ δώματος καὶ τὰ σκεύη αὐτοῦ ἐν τῇ οἰκίᾳ, μὴ καταβάτω ἆραι αὐτά, καὶ ὁ ἐν ἀγρῷ ὁμοίως μὴ ἐπιστρεψάτω εἰς τὰ ὀπίσω.
I think ὁμοίως modifies ἐπιστρεψάτω.

I also wonder in general how an adverb affects a circumstantial participle that immediately follows it, followed by a main verb. That would be interesting to look at.
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ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
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Jonathan Robie
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Re: 1 Pet 1:8 which verb does ἄρτι construe with?

Post by Jonathan Robie » May 9th, 2020, 4:36 pm

I played with these questions a little and created a PDF with some data.
1 Pet 1.8.pdf
(610.82 KiB) Downloaded 23 times
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ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/

Tony Pope
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Re: 1 Pet 1:8 which verb does ἄρτι construe with?

Post by Tony Pope » May 13th, 2020, 5:59 am

Have you considered the alternative interpretation of άγαλλιᾶσθε as a futural present, which was apparently popular in the past although not in the modern translations?

According to this ἄρτι can be construed with the whole of μὴ ὁρῶντες πιστεύοντες, and in contrast with the ex hypothesi future time reference of άγαλλιᾶσθε: though at present you have faith in him without seeing him, you are going to be jubilant ...

This interpretation of future joy seems to me to make better sense of the qualification of άγαλλιᾶσθε as χαρᾷ ἀνεκλαλήτῳ καὶ δεδοξασμένῃ. Verse 9 can also be read as a future expectation.
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Jonathan Robie
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Re: 1 Pet 1:8 which verb does ἄρτι construe with?

Post by Jonathan Robie » May 14th, 2020, 9:35 am

Tony Pope wrote:
May 13th, 2020, 5:59 am
Have you considered the alternative interpretation of άγαλλιᾶσθε as a futural present, which was apparently popular in the past although not in the modern translations?

According to this ἄρτι can be construed with the whole of μὴ ὁρῶντες πιστεύοντες, and in contrast with the ex hypothesi future time reference of άγαλλιᾶσθε: though at present you have faith in him without seeing him, you are going to be jubilant ...

This interpretation of future joy seems to me to make better sense of the qualification of άγαλλιᾶσθε as χαρᾷ ἀνεκλαλήτῳ καὶ δεδοξασμένῃ. Verse 9 can also be read as a future expectation.
I have chewed on this some, and it's certainly an interesting interpretation, but I'm not there yet. ἄρτι μὴ ὁρῶντες πιστεύοντες is present tense, the main verb ἀγαλλιᾶσθε is also present tense, that defines the relationship between them. And δεδοξασμένῃ is perfect.
ὃν οὐκ ἰδόντες ἀγαπᾶτε, εἰς ὃν ἄρτι μὴ ὁρῶντες πιστεύοντες δὲ ἀγαλλιᾶσθε χαρᾷ ἀνεκλαλήτῳ καὶ δεδοξασμένῃ
0 x
ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/

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