Evangelist and Bible translator

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jjThomas
Posts: 5
Joined: July 19th, 2020, 4:07 am

Evangelist and Bible translator

Post by jjThomas » July 19th, 2020, 4:22 am

I work as an evangelist and Bible translator. Welcome to consider The Christ Family Bible and A Guide to Misleading Bible Quotes, the two main publications I publish. (Both are available online for free.)
I trained in Language Sciences for about 6 years (2011-2016), including the ancient languages of the Bible, alongside semantics, pragmatics, syntax, translation theory etc.
I have trained for ministry formally since 2009, in the Protestant, university-based tradition, although I believe that all three main ecclesial groups (Orthodox, Catholic, Protestant) need to learn from each other in humble counsel like the model of Acts 15.
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Barry Hofstetter
Posts: 1824
Joined: May 6th, 2011, 1:48 pm

Re: Evangelist and Bible translator

Post by Barry Hofstetter » July 21st, 2020, 10:55 am

Welcome to B-Greek!
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N.E. Barry Hofstetter
Instructor of Latin
Jack M. Barrack Hebrew Academy
καὶ σὺ τὸ σὸν ποιήσεις κἀγὼ τὸ ἐμόν. ἆρον τὸ σὸν καὶ ὕπαγε.

Jonathan Robie
Posts: 3726
Joined: May 5th, 2011, 5:34 pm
Location: Durham, NC
Contact:

Re: Evangelist and Bible translator

Post by Jonathan Robie » July 21st, 2020, 11:25 am

Yes, welcome!

FWIW, I work for SIL International, doing software for Bible translation. So I work with a lot of Bible translators.
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ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/

jjThomas
Posts: 5
Joined: July 19th, 2020, 4:07 am

Re: Evangelist and Bible translator

Post by jjThomas » July 23rd, 2020, 10:36 am

Jonathan Robie wrote:
July 21st, 2020, 11:25 am
Yes, welcome!

FWIW, I work for SIL International, doing software for Bible translation. So I work with a lot of Bible translators.
Thank you for the welcome! I must note out of Christian duty (Jude 3-4) that I am very concerned about SIL, especially its relationship to the NIV and Biblica, because of their rather apparent practice of removing words and adding words to Holy Scripture, a practice that leads to spiritual and earthly disasters (Revelation 22:18-19).
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Jonathan Robie
Posts: 3726
Joined: May 5th, 2011, 5:34 pm
Location: Durham, NC
Contact:

Re: Evangelist and Bible translator

Post by Jonathan Robie » July 23rd, 2020, 12:13 pm

jjThomas wrote:
July 23rd, 2020, 10:36 am
Jonathan Robie wrote:
July 21st, 2020, 11:25 am
Yes, welcome!

FWIW, I work for SIL International, doing software for Bible translation. So I work with a lot of Bible translators.
Thank you for the welcome! I must note out of Christian duty (Jude 3-4) that I am very concerned about SIL, especially its relationship to the NIV and Biblica, because of their rather apparent practice of removing words and adding words to Holy Scripture, a practice that leads to spiritual and earthly disasters (Revelation 22:18-19).
SIL and Biblica are entirely different organizations, of course, I don't think we are responsible for the NIV. But I think any translation is going to add and subtract words from the original, and any form of textual criticism is going to arrive at an understanding of what the original text said. So I'm not sure what you are getting at.

Whatever it is, it's probably not in scope for B-Greek, where we focus on what the Greek text says or how to understand the Greek language. B-Greek is not about "what is the best translation" or "which critical text is closest to the original".
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ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/

jjThomas
Posts: 5
Joined: July 19th, 2020, 4:07 am

Re: Evangelist and Bible translator

Post by jjThomas » July 27th, 2020, 9:20 am

Jonathan Robie wrote:
July 23rd, 2020, 12:13 pm
jjThomas wrote:
July 23rd, 2020, 10:36 am
Jonathan Robie wrote:
July 21st, 2020, 11:25 am
Yes, welcome!

FWIW, I work for SIL International, doing software for Bible translation. So I work with a lot of Bible translators.
Thank you for the welcome! I must note out of Christian duty (Jude 3-4) that I am very concerned about SIL, especially its relationship to the NIV and Biblica, because of their rather apparent practice of removing words and adding words to Holy Scripture, a practice that leads to spiritual and earthly disasters (Revelation 22:18-19).
SIL and Biblica are entirely different organizations, of course, I don't think we are responsible for the NIV. But I think any translation is going to add and subtract words from the original, and any form of textual criticism is going to arrive at an understanding of what the original text said. So I'm not sure what you are getting at.

Whatever it is, it's probably not in scope for B-Greek, where we focus on what the Greek text says or how to understand the Greek language. B-Greek is not about "what is the best translation" or "which critical text is closest to the original".
Hi Jonathan Robie, that is a lot of strawmen you erect. I didn't say SIL and Biblica are the same organization, or that SIL is responsible for the NIV, or that B-Greek is a forum for discussions of "best translation", "best critical text", etc. I mentioned my concern about SIL because you spoke of your employment there. SIL and Biblica give formal, public approval of each other by being two of 22 full members in The Forum of Bible Agencies International (https://forum-intl.org/membership/members/).

Most importantly of all, your hypothesis that all Bible translations will add and subtract words from the original is extremely objectionable, because there is a hugely important rule against doing so, given with tremendous warnings in Revelation 22:18-19. It seems you are erecting a strawman here too: instead of focusing on the problem that Revelation 22:18-19 focuses on, your hearers should falsely and perilously accept that there are mundane reasons (translation theory; text criticism's challenges) why this rule should not be used to judge Bible translations.
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Jonathan Robie
Posts: 3726
Joined: May 5th, 2011, 5:34 pm
Location: Durham, NC
Contact:

Re: Evangelist and Bible translator

Post by Jonathan Robie » July 27th, 2020, 10:01 am

jjThomas wrote:
July 27th, 2020, 9:20 am
Hi Jonathan Robie, that is a lot of strawmen you erect. I didn't say SIL and Biblica are the same organization, or that SIL is responsible for the NIV, or that B-Greek is a forum for discussions of "best translation", "best critical text", etc. I mentioned my concern about SIL because you spoke of your employment there. SIL and Biblica give formal, public approval of each other by being two of 22 full members in The Forum of Bible Agencies International (https://forum-intl.org/membership/members/).
United Bible Societies, SIL, Wycliffe, American Bible Studies, and most mainstream Bible translators have also signed onto these principles. You apparently disagree with them. That's your right, but that's not what we discuss here on B-Greek.
jjThomas wrote:
July 27th, 2020, 9:20 am
Most importantly of all, your hypothesis that all Bible translations will add and subtract words from the original is extremely objectionable, because there is a hugely important rule against doing so, given with tremendous warnings in Revelation 22:18-19.
Frankly, I have no idea what you are talking about unless you are comparing one English translation to another. I'm guessing you just might be the kind of person who works mostly with interlinears and hasn't wrestled with these issues. Translations will differ. That's because they are translations and no translation is exactly equivalent to the original text, let alone the Greek text of the original manuscripts. They can't be.

By definition, a translation replaces every part of the original Greek with something else. Because there are not exact equivalents between Greek and English for every construct, you have to make decisions. Because one word in Greek can map to several in English or vice versa, the number of words won't correspond. And they certainly won't correspond between two English translations.

Early manuscripts differ, we do not have the original manuscripts, so you have to make decisions about what you think the most reliable underlying text is, that's what you translate. So one English translation may be based on a different Greek manuscript, which may have a different reading. Unless someone discovers the original manuscripts, human judgement is required to decide what the best reading is. I don't see any way around this.

And I don't think that's what the Revelations warning is about.

But for the purposes of B-Greek, I think this policies is relevant:
Jonathan Robie wrote:
May 6th, 2011, 9:46 am
B-Greek is about Greek texts and the Greek language, and most of the forums in B-Greek require a working knowledge of Biblical Greek; that is:
  • recognition of inflected forms of verbs, nouns, pronouns, adjectives, and adverbs
  • recognition of standard syntactic structures
  • a grasp of principal parts of common irregular verbs, and the ability to recognize them in a text
In the Beginner's Forum, we welcome beginners who do not yet have a working knowledge of Biblical Greek, and are actively working to learn the language. We want to help. Even basic questions about the meaning of the Greek text are welcome in the Beginner's Forum, and there's no shame in mistakes. Beginners will be gently pushed toward learning these structures over time, pointed to textbooks and other aids that will help them, and coached in how to see these structures in a text. Learning a language is all about learning the structure signals, so we will try to help you learn what these signals are and how to recognize them in a text.

Even in the Beginner's forum, general questions or opinions about doctrine or the meaning of the English text are not welcome. Sometimes we may encourage beginners to postpone questions that are over their head at their current level of understanding.
So far, your posts do not indicate any knowledge of Greek. You are not posting Greek texts or discussing the meaning of specific phrases in a way that indicates you understand how Greek syntax works.

If you want to continue post on B-Greek, please post about the things we discuss here, please quote texts in Greek, please ask specific questions about the Greek text, and please try to learn the basic terminology used to discuss syntax. That's what we do here.
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ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/

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