Ephesians ~ Generic Dative and Periphrastic Pefect
Carl W. Conrad
cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
Mon Apr 26 12:37:22 EDT 1999
At 10:21 AM -0500 4/26/99, Bill Ross wrote:
>{Carl }
>On the other hand, in the unquestionably authentic letters of Paul I've
>found several good instances of the periphrastic perfect or pluperfect;
>here are a few of them:
>
>Rom 13:1, where Paul speaks of authorities to which one must be subject.
>OU GAR ESTIN EXOUSIA EI MH hUPO QEOU, and those that do exist (hAI DE
>OUSAI), he says, hUPO QEOU TETAGMENAI EISIN. This is a periphrastic
>third-plural perfect passive.
>
>{Bill}
>Ironically, this is also an example of ESTIN as a "stand-alone" verb! This
>is exactly how George wants to read this construction:
>
>"Not ARE authorities except by God, and those that do exist, by God having
>been established ARE." (or, "Are, having been established by God").
>
>This would parallel George's reading: "In Grace you ARE, having been saved
>by faith."
The irony escapes me--unless you're referring to the ESTIN in the first
clause of Rom 13:1, which is to be sure an "existential" (the standard term
for what you're calling a "stand-alone" verb. The form to which I was
referring was rather TETAGMENAI EISIN in the main clause. And the reading
of this as "by God having been established ARE" or turned-around as "are,
having been established by God" is, in my judgment, just about as cogent.
>{Bill}
>>As to George's assertion that ESTE is a stand alone verb, in the sense of
>>"you exist," that is how I first read it, since the context has Paul
>>showing
>in this passage that the Church is God's new creation:
>>
>>Eph 2:
>>10 For we are his workmanship, **created** in Christ Jesus unto good
>>works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
>
>
>{Carl}
>In Eph 2:10 AUTOU GAR ESMEN POIHMA. ESMEN is hardly a "stand-alone" verb,
>it takes a predicate nominative, namely POIHMA AUTOU.
>
>{Bill}
> I was not citing 2:10 to show ESMEN as a "stand-alone" verb, but to show
>that the context of the passage was that the Church was a miracle by God,
>not an accomplishment of men. The word I was calling attention to was
>KTISQENTES.
I'm sorry I misunderstood your intent. I certainly wouldn't disagree with
that view of the context of the passage; I just fail to see how it impacts
upon the GRAMMATICAL structure of 2:5.
>{Carl}
>I hope that I have shown that.
>
>{Bill}
>Thank you for your ever diligent, patient instruction. I don't believe
>that you have proven that ESTE must of necessity be linked to SESWiSMENOI,
>since it can stand alone, and you have proved that ESTE can serve as a
>"stand-alone" verb as George holds. Further, it does appear less frequent
>to put ESTE before the verb than after. Hence, I don't see how the
>grammar, which supports both readings, can preclude either one.
>
>And both are true:
>
>"By/In grace you have been saved through faith"
>
>and
>
>"By/In grace you are, having been saved through faith."
>
>Did I miss anything that makes one conclusively incorrect??
>
>By the way, one additional reason that I prefer the second reading is that
>it does not have to be read as a parenthesis, and it contributes to the
>thrust of the passage. I find the disjointed approach unnerving.
What seems to me wholly left out of the account here is the distinction
between what is traditionally called the "existential" function of the verb
"be"/EINAI and what is traditionally called the "copulative" function of
this verb (whether the English or the Greek verb). Reading ESTE as
existential in function in Eph 2:5 may be comforting, but the fact is that
it is copulative, linking the subject to the participle in a manner that
has come to be the periphrastic perfect passive.
I am still inclined to believe that this argument is really driven by the
way you are reading the English translation rather than by an understanding
of the Greek grammar of the text in question.
Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics/Washington University
One Brookings Drive/St. Louis, MO, USA 63130/(314) 935-4018
Home: 7222 Colgate Ave./St. Louis, MO 63130/(314) 726-5649
cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
WWW: http://www.artsci.wustl.edu/~cwconrad/
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