John 8:58 (I am, I have been, I was?)

Steven Craig Miller scmiller at www.plantnet.com
Thu Dec 23 14:32:15 EST 1999


To: George Goolde, Carl W. Conrad, et al.,

CWC: << One could say, "I was," but I think that "I am" captures the 
paradoxical sense that the statement presents. If one is willing to 
sacrifice the structure of the Greek and reformulate the content, I think 
one might write, "My existence antedates the birth of Abraham." Come to 
think of it, that reformulation fits the old observation (which is at least 
partly true, as anyone who has had to memorize Greek verb paradigms is well 
aware) that English tends to express major notions with nouns while Greek 
tends to express major ideas with verbs. >>

SCM: << Perhaps, but EGW EIMI is just a common phrase which often in both 
Classical Greek and the NT simply means nothing more than "I am he" 
(assuming a male speaker). There is nothing in the Grammar of this Greek 
text which necessarily demands understanding this text to suggests 
pre-existence. One could just as easily interpret this passage to mean 
(something like): "before Abraham was, I was appointed to this task" 
(literally: "Before Abraham was, I am he"). On the other hand, I will 
concede the fact that the phrase PRIN ABRAAM GENESQAI makes understanding 
the text somewhat difficult. Exactly what was before Abraham? Your 
interpretation assumes that it was the individual or person of Jesus which 
preexisted before Abraham. My interpretation merely assumes that the 
appointment of the person Jesus for God's task preexisted before Abraham. >>

GG: << Which shows that we all have theological presuppositions which 
sometimes color our understanding of the Greek text. >>

I fully concur. Since, after all, everything can be considered to be a 
"theological presupposition."  For example, should a person eat sausage or 
hot dogs? Someone who is Torah-observant would hold that eating sausage or 
hot dogs was an abomination unto God. Someone not Torah-observant might not 
care either way. Each can be said to have a "theological presupposition" as 
to what God requires of humanity. In Lutheran theology (and perhaps in 
other theologies as well) there is a category called "adiaphora," which 
refers to "indifferent things," which are neither commanded, nor forbidden, 
by God. But even here, assuming that somethings are "adiaphora" and other 
are not is also a "theological presupposition."

But despite the fact that everything can be considered to be a "theological 
presupposition," we can still ask ourselves which interpretations of 
scripture better reflect the Greek text. The problem I have with Dr. 
Conrad's interpretation of John 8:58 is that he seems to be taking a 
present tense EIMI and interpreting it as a historical present. Perhaps I'm 
mistaken, but it seems to me that there is no real evidence (elsewhere) of 
the present tense of EIMI being used in this manner. Where as my 
interpretation of this passage interprets EIMI as a present tense.

It would perhaps be an understatement for me to suggest that Dr. Conrad's 
knowledge of Greek far exceeds my own. And I have a deep respect for him 
both as a person and a scholar. But on such issues as this, it does not 
seem unreasonable for one to ask for substantiation. Although I live across 
the Mississippi, in the state of Illinois, I subscribe to the motto of the 
great state of Missouri, "Show me." Daniel B. Wallace, in his "Greek 
Grammar Beyond the Basics" (1996), writes:

<< A proper syntactical approach must be based on legitimate, undisputed 
examples >> (530n47).

I am more than willing to change my mind on this issue when legitimate and 
undisputed examples are presented supporting the notion that the present 
tense of EIMI was used in ancient Greek as a historical present, or if it 
can be shown how I've misunderstood things here. But until then, it seems 
to me that suggesting that my interpretation also contains "theological 
presuppositions" is fairly meaningless, or at least moot, since each and 
every interpretation must contain "theological presuppositions" of one sort 
or another.

-Steven Craig Miller
Alton, Illinois (USA)
scmiller at www.plantnet.com
Disclaimer: "I'm just a simple house-husband (with no post-grad degree), 
what do I know?"




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