Rev 18:20

Carl W. Conrad cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
Sat Jun 19 17:58:13 EDT 1999


At 1:56 PM -0400 6/19/99, Bill Barton wrote:
>Carl Conrad wrote:
>
>CC>No, EK in this instance [Rev 18:20] must mean (oddly) "with reference
>to", an extraordinary extension of "arising from", i.e., it really does
>start out as an ablatival genitive, but passes over into a semantic realm
>close to what one expects with an accusative of respect or dative of
>respect.>
>
>
>Some other examples of the idiom "avenge from":
>
>
>Rev 6:10 God is entreated to judge the martyrs "from (ek) the inhabitants
>of the earth."
>
>Rev 19:2 God avenged the blood of his servants "from (ek) her hand."
>
>Luke 18:3 The widow entreated the judge to avenge her "from (apo) my
>adversary."
>
>Deut 18:19 in LXX  God said of those who ignored the Prophet "I will avenge
>myself from (ek) him."
>
>1 Sam 24:13 in LXX  David said to Saul "may the Lord avenge me from (ek)
>you."
>
>
>Could it be that the sense of the idiom is that the judgment removes
>something from the one judged, so that the use of EK with the genitive is
>in the sense of separation?

I suppose it could be a Semitism; on the other hand, what leaped
immediately to my mind when I saw this was a Latin idiom, SUPPLICIUM SUMERE
DE ALIQUO, "to exact punishment from someone": Here is the section from the
Lewis & Short Latin dictionary at the Perseus site, s.v. SUMO.

2. Esp.: supplicium sumere, to exact satisfaction, inflict punishment,
rarely absol.: supplici sibi sumat, quod volt ipse, ob hanc injuriam,
Plaut. Merc. 5.4.31: satis sumpsimus jam supplici, id. Pers. 5.2.72:
graviore sententiâ pronuntiatâ more majorum supplicium sumpsit, Caes. B. G.
6.44.--Usu. de aliquo: potuisse hunc de illâ supplicium sumere, Cic. Inv.
2, 27, 82: tum homo nefarius de homine nobili virgis supplicium
crudelissime sumeret, id. Verr. 2.2.37.§ 91: supplicium de matre sumpsisse,
Cic. Rosc. Am. 24.66; Liv. 39, 29; cf. supplicium.--Rarely ex aliquo, Liv.
23, 3, 1.-- Post-class. also ab aliquo, Val. Max. 4, 1, ext. 1; 5, 1, ext.
2.--Rarely poenam sumere ( = capere): pro maleficio poenam sumi oportere,
Cic. Inv. 2, 36, 108: merentis poenas, Verg. A. 2.586: poenam scelerato ex
sanguine, id. ib. 12.949; cf. id. ib. 6.501.--


Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University
Summer: 1647 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
WWW: http://www.artsci.wustl.edu/~cwconrad/
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